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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad?

 
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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 7:50:06 AM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpokanePT

So, we then get back to how do you fix all of these problems without ACA:

1. 30 million uninsured people
2. Insurance companies kicking people off of insurance when they get sick
3. Insurance companies not allowing people to purchase insurance with pre-existing conditions
4. Medicare part D doughnut hole
5. healthcare related costs are the main reason for bankruptcy
6. Young people who can't stay on their parent's plans after age 18

Atlas Shrugged was a long and boring fairytale that even Paul Ryan won't continue to endorse
r
I would be happy to simplify the tax code by stripping all of the loopholes for corporations like GE, Verizon, Citi, etc. who paid no taxes at all.

Good luck killing the most popular healthcare program that the country has ever known. It is refreshing to have conservatives actually come out and say that they want to get rid of Medicare. It would be nice if the Red team would actually come out and say it. But they won't because nearly everyone who has that socialized, government run healthcare likes it.



yep, that's why all those Canadians are coming to the states for their surgeries. Haven't you seen the wait times for the Canadians for receiving health care?

You make something free it gets overused. You think fraud is bad now, just wait.

10 million of the 30 without insurance don't want it.

Atlas Shrugged was long and had lots of big words and high concepts. I'll bet you haven't read it but are fluent in Marx.

I don't disagree that costs are too high but price fixing never works. If we just got paid what it says on the bill the prices would fall precipitously. The market finds the perfect price. The problem is, when things are free the market and with it, real competition, is completely taken out of the equation.

The reason that insurance is not portable is because every state has its own practice act. This defines what a PT can and cannot do differently in each state.

If people had catastrophic insurance only, routine costs would come down. That was the original purpose of insurance. Now everyone wants all health care to be free.

< Message edited by Tom Reeves DPT ATC -- July 3, 2012 9:03:18 AM >

(in reply to SpokanePT)
Post #: 21
RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 7:52:32 AM   
Chocco

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Reeves DPT ATC




Q: Why is it that I can't do my own taxes? A: because the tax code is so complicated even the Treasury secretary can't do his right. I am certain that the ACA will become (already is in my opinion) the same type of behemoth that the tax code is. Do you really want your congressman (who might be a farmer or an accountant or a lawyer to determine what is good policy and what is not? Once it is codified changing it is like trying to turn a battleship. Perfect example is the therapy cap. The line read something like this, and I am paraphrasing: there will be a cap on spending for rehabilitation for physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech therapy. That was interpreted by the geniuses in Washington as being a separate cap for PT + OT and a separate one for speech. First, do you really think that is what they meant ? and second, do you think it is good policy? and third, do you want the same people to tell you that your 49 year old stroke patient has used up their benefit even if they continue to make meaninful progress?



Tom,
I believe it's PT+Speech plus a seperate one for OT
And as someone that regularly works with stroke patients this is a little misleading. The cap has exemptions if they make meaningful progress they are allowed to continue therapy. You have to make sure you can doccument the improvements and your treatment is medically necessary because it will get audited but they will reimburse you. It is actually a more fair scenario then almost any other insurance. Most Commercial insurances use companies like OrthoNet even for neurological condiditons. OrthoNet on their own site cites that they are the "leading orthopedic benefit management company in the Unites States". Try telling your stroke patient that they have been given 3 sessions and they need to demonstrate improvement.

(in reply to Tom Reeves DPT ATC)
Post #: 22
RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 9:02:27 AM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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my mistake. but the point remains. I can't imagine that the intent was to separate the disciplines and yet that is how it was interpreted. Personally, I have not encountered the cap.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 11:28:37 AM   
honker23

 

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Its sad when right vs left blinds people from making informed intelligent decisions.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 11:57:45 AM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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agreed

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 4:17:55 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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quote:

Atlas Shrugged was long and had lots of big words and high concepts. I'll bet you haven't read it but are fluent in Marx.


Now let's not get petty... I am actually on page 800 of the thing. Never read any Marx, but I do like this guy:

"Consider what the different sides in economic debate have been predicting these past six or seven years. If you got your views from, say, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, you knew – knew – that there was no housing bubble, that America in 2008 wasn’t in recession, that budget deficits would send interest rates sky-high, that the Fed’s expansion of its balance sheet would produce huge inflation, that austerity policies would lead to economic expansion." -Krugman

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 5:24:04 PM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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quote:

"Consider what the different sides in economic debate have been predicting these past six or seven years. If you got your views from, say, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, you knew – knew – that there was no housing bubble, that America in 2008 wasn’t in recession, that budget deficits would send interest rates sky-high, that the Fed’s expansion of its balance sheet would produce huge inflation, that austerity policies would lead to economic expansion." -Krugman


The reason the housing bubble happened was because the banks were forced under threat of financial penalty, to make home loans to people who were never capable of paying the mortgage back. Bad notes were sold, and resold, Fannie and Freddie crashed. Everyone knew that fannie and freddie was a wreck. W even tried to reign it in but Barney Frank and Chris Dodd swept the impending financial troubles under the rug. then the bottom fell out.

I think Krugman is a serial mischaracterizer of economic truths. Fox Noise huh? Maybe the NY Times isn't the only credible source of information.

(in reply to SpokanePT)
Post #: 27
RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 3, 2012 5:55:33 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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The truth is, for all their mistakes, Fannie and Freddie had some scruples about the nonprime loans they guaranteed or bought — and they have the default numbers to prove it.

For instance, according to David Min, a leading Wallison critic at the Center for American Progress, as of the second quarter of 2010, the delinquency rate on all Fannie and Freddie guaranteed loans was 5.9 percent. By contrast, the national average was 9.11 percent. The Fannie and Freddie Alt-A default rate is similarly much lower than the national default rate. The only possible explanation for this is that many of the loans being characterized by the S.E.C. and Wallison/Pinto as “subprime” are not, in fact, true subprime mortgages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/opinion/nocera-an-inconvenient-truth.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

Isn't this part of the larger problem. You have your Fox News, and I have my NY Times articles and you know that you are right and I know that I am right. Shouldn't we be talking about the solutions to the problems and debating the policy on its face rather than talking past each other.

The fact is that we pay too much for less care than the rest of the world. You would like to go with a libertarian market based solution where everyone is responsible to find the appropriate price for care and pay mostly out of pocket so that there are some disincentives to getting that care.

The problem with this solution is that it does not and has not ever worked anywhere in the world. Conservatives like to forget the universal healthcare works everywhere else in the world for lower cost. There are problems with certain systems, namely Canada, but the folks in Norway are pretty happy with what they have.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 5, 2012 9:14:09 AM   
bgalindpt

 

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Ok, very sick discussion to have but there is a heart of the matter to this.

is healthcare an entitlement or a privilege. Do you have a right to healthcare or do you have an obligation to be insured? I cannot think of any reason why someone does not have a RIGHT to healthcare, just many cannot afford it. There is a lot in America you have a RIGHT to, but it does not mean you are entitled to it. I have a RIGHT to own a range rover, but I cannot afford one, therefore I am not entitled to one nor am I even entitled to any car at all. this is one big aspect of the debate because somewhere it jumped from being able to access healthcare to being able to afford or have healthcare insurance.

On another spectrum. There was a big special about healthcare systems around the world, the pros and cons. Unfortunately, it is so not apples and apples. For example, I think it was singapore, that created a one system government run healthcare system with everyone having to pay, but since the pool is the entire population, the risk pool watered down and therefore premiums are affordable. Since each person has one system they are in, coordination of health services is high therefore reducing the waste. I think it was the Swiss who have a government program, but yes, the government does decide who gets what. So ethical panels will choose who gets certain procedures and who does not. I think it was columbia who had a two tiered program, one for those who want and can afford to pay more with better access and better coverage, and one for the masses with longer wait times less coverage and less expensive procedures etc.

No matter which way works for us or doesn't, it just seems like we acknowledge that the cost of healthcare if gone unchecked will eat up our entire economy in our life time. Therefore something needs to be done. But it just does not seem like his is a step towards anywhere. We mandate coverage, but I think we need to think about a full overhaul. I think the only barrier (tongue in cheek in "only") is that healthcare is such a big business, how do you say to a captialistic society, by the way, sorry BCBS you are no longer going to make billions a year, you are no longer going to employ thousands and thousands.

Not being politically leaning, just don't know what the solution is, just don't think that mandating something that is broken is the solution.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 5, 2012 8:56:00 PM   
honker23

 

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http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/comparing-tax-rates-in-the-us-and-norway.html

Interesting for this guy, he paid 60-85K more a year in taxes for this "great" healthcare. I bet he could buy a cheaper policy here in the US for better care.
To me it boils down to those who are working will pay even more for worse coverage spread out to all....maybe I'm wrong.

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Post #: 30
RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 9, 2012 7:01:09 AM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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quote:

"Consider what the different sides in economic debate have been predicting these past six or seven years. If you got your views from, say, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, you knew – knew – that there was no housing bubble, that America in 2008 wasn’t in recession, that budget deficits would send interest rates sky-high, that the Fed’s expansion of its balance sheet would produce huge inflation, that austerity policies would lead to economic expansion." -Krugman


Krugman also believes that if the government takes a dollar from an individual, and allocates it to a priority of the government, that it is more helpful to the economy than having the individual spend the dollar on their own personal priority.

In the real world, that dollar is spent based upon a political agenda (see Solyndra et al). Also, once administrative costs are paid to the people that take the money, and redistribute it, it isn't a whole dollar anymore.

Again, give me one example where the government is more EFFICIENT than the private sector.

(in reply to honker23)
Post #: 31
RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 9, 2012 7:17:38 AM   
Sebastian Asselbergs

 

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Tom, point well taken.
But in order to have real free market healthcare (beyond emergency care), the US situation will have to change profoundly. Simpler and smaller government, hugely simplifying tax calculations and such. I am not holding my breath: there are so many powerbrokers and greasy palms in politics (anywhere in the world!) that I have become cynical.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 9, 2012 12:26:18 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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Countercyclical spending can and does shorten and shallow recessions. Nearly all economists, including the Fed and the CBO have said that the stimulus worked in that it stopped the bleeding. In fact TARP did its job too in that it freed up the credit markets. The reason that the stimulus was not as successful as we would have liked is because:

1. estimates of job losses in 2008 were dreastically under
2. 1/3 of the stimulus was tax cuts, which are the least stimulative
3. there was not nearly enough infrastructure spencing

The Grand Coulee Dam is a great example of where the government came in and spent billions of dollars, created thousands of jobs, and built something that the private sector could and would not. The highway system, especially in rural areas can not sustained by private investment alone.

The fact is that most if not all of Krugman's predictions about what happens in a situation when the Fed funds rate is near zero and there is high unemployment have been correct. If you had invested as the invisible bond vigiliaties had told you about high inflation caused by QE1 and QE2, then you would have lost a lot of money over the past two years.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 9, 2012 1:18:41 PM   
Tom Reeves DPT ATC

 

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Bas,

Yup, all true. Gotta start somewhere or else we are sunk and our children are sunk, and our grandchildren are sunk, ad infinitum.

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 11, 2012 6:46:57 AM   
Sebastian Asselbergs

 

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Tom, have you seen this?
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/07/to-make-america-great-again-we-need-to-leave-the-country/259653/

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - July 23, 2012 2:59:58 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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This onion structure is why you should never believe reasonable-sounding conservatives who say that you’re attacking a straw man, that “nobody believes” that wealth creators owe nothing to society. Oh yes they do — it’s usually hidden inside a couple of more socially acceptable excuses, but at their core Ryan and people like him believe that they’re characters in Atlas Shrugged.

By the way, who built the roads in Galt’s Gulch?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/the-conservative-onion/

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - January 16, 2015 7:46:32 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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Remembering this heated discussion that we had in 2012, I wonder if anyone has changed their mind? In light of the fact that the uninsured rate is down, premiums are increasing at the slowest rate in recent memory, and the economy seems to be heading in a positive direction, is there anyone out there with a concrete policy issue with Obamacare?

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - January 17, 2015 1:19:39 PM   
TLB

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpokanePT

Remembering this heated discussion that we had in 2012, I wonder if anyone has changed their mind? In light of the fact that the uninsured rate is down, premiums are increasing at the slowest rate in recent memory, and the economy seems to be heading in a positive direction, is there anyone out there with a concrete policy issue with Obamacare?


You must not pay for your insurance premiums because mine along with the deductibles have gone way up while the coverage has decreased. This bill was pushed through by the dem majority without bipartisan support and founded on lies "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" along with "this will decrease a family of 4 bill by 2500.00" all of which are BS. You really want to talk about the economy well then let's look at the number of food stamp recipients since this genius has taken office or how about the number of people out of work who are no longer even looking for a job. Better yet for the first time in history the number of small businesses closing is greater than the number of start ups. Now we knew you were an ignorant fu*k back in 2012 my question is why would you reinforce that notion in 2015?

< Message edited by TLB -- January 17, 2015 1:20:53 PM >

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RE: Obamacare passes. Good or bad? - January 18, 2015 5:41:02 PM   
SpokanePT

 

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Actually I pay for myself and 10 other employees, and our premiums rose by a little over 1% in 2013 and decreased slightly in 2014. Between 2007 and 2012 the smallest increase for our premiums was in the high single digits, and we had one year in the high teens. If you had a dramatic increase in your premiums, you are likely in the very small group of individual plans that were high deductible with very basic coverage. But, realize that you were able to get that rate because insurance companies were good at making sure that the old, sick, female clients were priced out of the market or kicked off their plan when they got sick. The average premium increase was 3% last year.

In terms of the economy, I like it when conservatives cherry pick one tiny piece of data to make their point, despite the facts. Of course food stamp use was up since Obama has been in office because of the great recession that started with the last President. You did fail to mention that those numbers are coming back down as the unemployment rate gets closer to full employment and the social safety net is not needed. It is harder to make your case if you look at any other economic indicator such as jobs created, unemployment rate, number of weeks unemployed, GDP increases, or inflation numbers.

I ask again if there is anyone that has actual policy issues with the ACA, and if they have a solution to those policy issues.

quote:

Now we knew you were an ignorant fu*k back in 2012


Stay classy... Ben Carson 2016.

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