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RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis

 
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RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 1:50:22 PM   
TexasOrtho


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Morning John.  Here are the links to the discussions.  They are actually pretty interesting if you factor out the back and forth between Di and myself.  The now-infamous "kiss my arse" was via PM.  The thing that got me into really hot water was saying "so sayeth the shepherd" after his proclamation that no manual therapy could change a knee flexion contracture.  It basically deteriorated from there, but the discussions are otherwise pretty interesting reading.

Ectodermal approach and evidence

What is an ectodermal approach?



_____________________________

Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
Movement Science Podcast and Blog

(in reply to PTupdate.com)
Post #: 81
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 2:03:48 PM   
SJBird55

 

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http://www.somasimple.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2301&page=8

Duff, you won't find any public nastiness.  Rod was a perfect gentleman.  Apparently the crap happened privately.  I also learned that you better not ask anyone over there if he/she has ADD.  Hmmm.... I wonder if the moderators all get together and vote on who needs to be silenced or banned?  LOL  Or does the control occur because of a hotheaded, emotional moment?  (Sooo, THERE... no speak again!  LOL)  Do the moderators all agree with each other and believe silencing is a good thing?  Seems like silencing/banning is a case by case kind of issue versus a definite black and white obvious sort of deal.  Rule by dictatorship - keep the pond manageable with bursts of allowable challenge and then whiff it out.  LOL

(in reply to PTupdate.com)
Post #: 82
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 2:36:34 PM   
TexasOrtho


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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Now....I'm not sure about perfect gentleman , but I was hardly a forum terrorist.  Thanks for that anyway SJ.  You're too good to me!  I do think there is some remarkably good perspectives out there on that and other forums.  I particularly enjoy Luke's posts as they are indicative of a more critical investigation of the literature.  Others are more interested in getting their belief systems validated more than uncovering facts.  I'm always ready to be wrong.  It's one of the best ways to learn. 

_____________________________

Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
Movement Science Podcast and Blog

(in reply to SJBird55)
Post #: 83
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 2:37:50 PM   
Jon Newman

 

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Joined: April 25, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
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quote:

They are actually pretty interesting if you factor out the back and forth between Di and myself.


Yes, exactly.

quote:

The thing that got me into really hot water was saying "so sayeth the shepherd" after his proclamation that no manual therapy could change a knee flexion contracture.


Actually it was just one more straw on a camel's back that was at a critical state and an indicator that  rather than reeling in the dysfunctional relation, you were expanding it.

quote:

It basically deteriorated from there, but the discussions are otherwise pretty interesting reading.


Again, yes.  And that "pretty interesting reading" is what we try to maintain.  As you noted, you like to make things personal and you value that aspect of your existence more than participating in pretty interesting conversation.  To each their own.

< Message edited by Jon Newman -- March 29, 2008 2:40:17 PM >

(in reply to TexasOrtho)
Post #: 84
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 2:48:32 PM   
TexasOrtho


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Joined: December 22, 2007
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Jon get over yourself.  The "interesting reading" you refer to is steadily turning into a "cult of personality" with only a few very bright individuals keeping it afloat with logic and facts.  You are maintaining a one-sided perspective with very little tolerance for anyone elses ideas or discourse.  To each their own.

_____________________________

Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
Movement Science Podcast and Blog

(in reply to Jon Newman)
Post #: 85
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 3:09:24 PM   
Jon Newman

 

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From: Amherst, WI
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Rod, you're the one that characterized it as "pretty interesting reading", I just happen to agree. What makes for pretty interesting reading is the presentation of facts and logic, not ad hom argumentative fallacies, at least to me. I won't get over that.

As far as being one sided, it simply isn't true. I suppose if someone bringing an opposing view point also brings their personal issues with the moderators it might appear that we have an intolerance to ideas and discourse. Prior to your focus on your personal feelings about the moderators you were able to influence a change in the MODERATOR'S CONSENSUS on pain. How do you explain our willingness to do that? Intolerance?

< Message edited by Jon Newman -- March 29, 2008 3:11:53 PM >

(in reply to TexasOrtho)
Post #: 86
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 4:36:47 PM   
TexasOrtho


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Joined: December 22, 2007
Status: offline
quote:

Prior to your focus on your personal feelings about the moderators you were able to influence a change in the MODERATOR'S CONSENSUS on pain. How do you explain our willingness to do that? Intolerance?


The changes I proposed and moderators agreed upon brought those statements back to a more balanced and factual representation of pain as it pertains to our patients.  If you'd like me to thank you for helping you achieve this, you have my sincerest gratitude.

However, I think even you would have to agree the gravity of that forum is greatly influenced by two or three individuals (roughly accounting for 15,000 of 49,000 posts at present) who guide each debate as they see fit. It's their forum, so I don't dispute the mute/ban.  I just think if their goal is to achieve a broader audience willing to listen to their ideas (some being very good ones) they should allow a productive discussion/debate to proceede without starting a fight they obviously can't finish. Luke, Jason, Nick, Cory, you and I were all having a fascinating debate until the pit yorkie started and kept biting at my heels. 

It is becoming more and more evident however that the pursuit of a science-based reality is not their goal.  They would rather simply encircle themselves with like-minded individuals ready to pat each other on the back and say "well done!" and "I'm going to use that in my next speech!".  I simply don't think this is the path to developing an idea...Ideologues must be willing to subject their notions to unbiased scrutiny for it to push it's way out into mainstream practice.

If you find the terms tribe and cult to be offensive means of describing this phenomenon, I really can't do anything about that.  I'd suggest rereading Beyerstein's description of a "pseudoscience" and have your moderators take a long hard look in the mirror.

< Message edited by TexasOrtho -- March 29, 2008 4:42:55 PM >


_____________________________

Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
Movement Science Podcast and Blog

(in reply to Jon Newman)
Post #: 87
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 5:05:55 PM   
Jon Newman

 

Posts: 1733
Joined: April 25, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
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Balance isn't as interesting as accuracy. Anyone who is able to help with accuracy deserves thanks for that aspect of their contribution, so thanks.

(in reply to TexasOrtho)
Post #: 88
RE: thoughts on manual therapy for scoliosis - March 29, 2008 5:45:02 PM   
TexasOrtho


Posts: 1090
Joined: December 22, 2007
Status: offline
Thank you Jon for being the voice of reason for both sides of the dispute.

_____________________________

Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
Movement Science Podcast and Blog

(in reply to Jon Newman)
Post #: 89
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