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Re: WHY?

 
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Re: WHY? - August 20, 2002 7:06:00 PM   
RotaryBzzz

 

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Up. So how's the world since I've left it?

PTstud: you see the world with goggles on.


[This message has been edited by RotaryBzzz (edited August 20, 2002).]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 21
Re: WHY? - September 2, 2002 11:08:00 PM   
swoodard23

 

Posts: 38
Joined: March 19, 2002
From: Abilene
Status: offline
Hello,
I don't mean to be rude but I was wondering if some of you could actually say round abouts what your salaries are. I too am a student and am not really concerned about student loans (probably about 20K at the end) but would like to know about what to expect coming out. I may be misled, but expect to make around 40K coming out. I know at least two PT's making 60K but would like to have more input.
Thanks,
Scott

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 22
Re: WHY? - September 29, 2002 8:13:00 AM   
dab

 

Posts: 15
Joined: September 29, 2002
From: Naples, FL USA
Status: offline
Hi, Everyone:

I'm new to the Forum, but have read with great interest many posts, replies and discussions. Let me just say that Mr. Ball is dead-on in his assessment of the state of Physical Therapy....I couldn't agree with him more. Like Mr. Ball, I have continued to further my education and am just completing my MBA degree in Finance.
If we,as a group, are to adapt and survive these trying times, we need to take action and stop whining.
Thinking "outside the box" and showing a willingness to embrace the changes we are currently being forced to accept will help us to decide our future instead of allowing other organizations to do it for us. Things change......we need to recognize this and try to avoid the complacency that has most definitely adversely affected us.
Chiros and ATCs have successfully organized to make HUGE in-roads into our professional domain. This competition will ultimately HELP us as Therapists and improve the quality of patient care....not the other way around.
Instead of complaining and sitting back as our competition "blows by us", we should be pro-active. This begins by getting involved and asking what you can do to help. Our professional organization, APTA, in my opinion has not done a very good job of promoting our interests in the past. However, APTA seems to be making, or attempting to make, changes for the betterment of our profession. Get involved and DO SOMETHING about our situation!

Thanks for letting me blow off some steam. Mr. Ball, keep up the great work/advice!

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 23
Re: WHY? - October 2, 2002 12:46:00 AM   
johnjfraser

 

Posts: 102
Joined: June 12, 2000
From: Staten Island, NY
Status: offline
Ack, where is my soap box.
I understand why people have doubts about the future, especially how our profession turned post BBA. I continuously hear stories about the hay-days of our profession, and how the profession is now spiraling downhill. I even started to fall into that rut for a while because of the people that surrounded me. But I have a different perspective now.
I am part of a profession like no other. We are in an evolutionary process, which is accelerating to the speed of light (which in my opinion is contributory to the lack of confidence in the future of PT, people dislike change). Sure there is uncertainty, but I see the positive of what is to come. We are progressing toward a profession in which interventions that are not based on evidence will be phased out, along with the practitioners who utilize these same interventions. We are a profession that will be on the doctoral level, and will practice in an unrestricted practice environment. We will continue to be advocates for our patients, and intervene on their behalf.
For those who are doubtful and pessimistic, I challenge you. . .
1. Support your profession. Join your association, and get involved. This is who is fighting on your behalf, and less than 40% of us are even members. PTs rationalize that the reason they are not members is because of the dues. Let them be reminded that if the APTA was not fighting on their behalf, that jobs could be lossed, and reimbursement would be less. Or possibly your scope of practice taken away by others, while they try to capture a "piece of the pie".
2. Research - most of us had to do it as part of graduate requirements in PT school and most people (that I encounter) were turned off by this experience. But in order for our profession to grow, we need to continue this endeavor to find what works. . . and show the payers that what we do is valid, so pay us.
3. Public (including other health professionals) perspective of PT. - As a profession, we need to start educating the public on what we do and how we do it. PT is perceived to be "massage, hotpacks, and exercise." People I have spoken to have asked "you need a degree to become a PT". We need to educate the public and other practitioners. We have to change our own attitudes toward our profession. Many PTs feel as subordinates to other health professionals (more specifically referring practitioners). We need to act as equals with other practitioners in the healthcare continuum.

If PTs put as much energy into these three areas as they do into pessimism, their outlook would be that much brighter for the future.

------------------
John J Fraser, PT, MS
johnjfraser@yahoo.com
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser]http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser[/URL]

[This message has been edited by johnjfraser (edited October 01, 2002).]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 24
Re: WHY? - October 2, 2002 9:22:00 PM   
dab

 

Posts: 15
Joined: September 29, 2002
From: Naples, FL USA
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by johnjfraser:
Ack, where is my soap box.
I understand why people have doubts about the future, especially how our profession turned post BBA. I continuously hear stories about the hay-days of our profession, and how the profession is now spiraling downhill. I even started to fall into that rut for a while because of the people that surrounded me. But I have a different perspective now.
I am part of a profession like no other. We are in an evolutionary process, which is accelerating to the speed of light (which in my opinion is contributory to the lack of confidence in the future of PT, people dislike change). Sure there is uncertainty, but I see the positive of what is to come. We are progressing toward a profession in which interventions that are not based on evidence will be phased out, along with the practitioners who utilize these same interventions. We are a profession that will be on the doctoral level, and will practice in an unrestricted practice environment. We will continue to be advocates for our patients, and intervene on their behalf.
For those who are doubtful and pessimistic, I challenge you. . .
1. Support your profession. Join your association, and get involved. This is who is fighting on your behalf, and less than 40% of us are even members. PTs rationalize that the reason they are not members is because of the dues. Let them be reminded that if the APTA was not fighting on their behalf, that jobs could be lossed, and reimbursement would be less. Or possibly your scope of practice taken away by others, while they try to capture a "piece of the pie".
2. Research - most of us had to do it as part of graduate requirements in PT school and most people (that I encounter) were turned off by this experience. But in order for our profession to grow, we need to continue this endeavor to find what works. . . and show the payers that what we do is valid, so pay us.
3. Public (including other health professionals) perspective of PT. - As a profession, we need to start educating the public on what we do and how we do it. PT is perceived to be "massage, hotpacks, and exercise." People I have spoken to have asked "you need a degree to become a PT". We need to educate the public and other practitioners. We have to change our own attitudes toward our profession. Many PTs feel as subordinates to other health professionals (more specifically referring practitioners). We need to act as equals with other practitioners in the healthcare continuum.

If PTs put as much energy into these three areas as they do into pessimism, their outlook would be that much brighter for the future.

[/QUOTE]

From DAB: BRAVO!!!! Love this post!

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 25
Re: WHY? - October 5, 2002 4:11:00 PM   
PTstud

 

Posts: 86
Joined: March 9, 2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RotaryBzzz:
Up. So how's the world since I've left it?

PTstud: you see the world with goggles on.


[This message has been edited by RotaryBzzz (edited August 20, 2002).]
[/QUOTE]

I dont understand why you say that. Maybe Im in denial, sacrificing so much (borrowing money, living away from home, countless study hours a week)persuing a degree that according to some here is literally worthless (financially). I didnt go into this field expecting to make $80k, but I did go into this field because I like the whole "premise" of PT. I also do expect to make atleast $50k/year, as most of the PTs i know in my city make well above that. I understand all the challenges we face, but some of you have stuck a fork in this profession. Some people here seem to have a HUGE chip on their shoulder. If me posting what I feel are some positive aspects about our profession is "seeing the world with goggles on", so be it.


M



[This message has been edited by PTstud (edited October 05, 2002).]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 26
Re: WHY? - October 5, 2002 8:05:00 PM   
PTstud

 

Posts: 86
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From: Texas
Status: offline
I still dont understand why some of you dont mention any of the recent strides and efforts that apta has accomplished for PT. We fought off the DCs' attempt to keep us from being spine manipulators, our efforts to gain direct access is paying off, and according to Dr. Ball (in the chiropractic madness post), x-ray ordering and full direct access is also in our near future. Am I missing something here? After the dark cloud that hit PT in the mid to late 90s, dont you all think that apta as well as the rest of the PT profession learned their lesson? Do you all think we will allow to be "screwed" again?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by PTstud:
I dont understand why you say that. Maybe Im in denial, sacrificing so much (borrowing money, living away from home, countless study hours a week)persuing a degree that according to some here is literally worthless (financially). I didnt go into this field expecting to make $80k, but I did go into this field because I like the whole "premise" of PT. I also do expect to make atleast $50k/year, as most of the PTs i know in my city make well above that. I understand all the challenges we face, but some of you have stuck a fork in this profession. Some people here seem to have a HUGE chip on their shoulder. If me posting what I feel are some positive aspects about our profession is "seeing the world with goggles on", so be it.

M

[This message has been edited by PTstud (edited October 05, 2002).]
[/QUOTE]



[This message has been edited by PTstud (edited October 05, 2002).]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 27
Re: WHY? - October 10, 2002 11:08:00 AM   
anOHPT

 

Posts: 20
Joined: April 16, 2002
Status: offline
I'll admit that I have kind of taken to the pessimistic side of the fence on this topic. As an MSPT, I am suspicious of all the hoopla and grand pronouncements of DPT superiority. I aalso realize that NO ONE can predict accurately what will happen tomorrow, let alone years down the road.
Soon2bpt, if you are thinking that this a gravy job, it ain't. There isn't a career out there that is. If you are looking to be independently wealthy and retired from PT. Think again. Do you ever wonder why so many PT's (and other allied health pro's)work second jobs? It's not mad money! Especially if you are the primary earner of the family. To that end, I work another 15+ hours a week as PRN SNF staff. I see my kids for 30-60 minutes a day. I have yet to make a full payment on my ever growing student loan balance.
Now, I don't often agree with Dr. Ball, I don't have the intellectual reserves to mount anything but a laughable defense. However, I wholeheartedly agree with his counsel to create and maintain your position ahead of the career curve.
I am an industrial PT. I had intended to go this route from the time I entered PT school. I work in an auto plant. I do not bill, seek reimbursement or count CPT's. I treat autoworkers- sometimes on third shift. NO faculty ever told me that I might be working third shift as a PT!!! I am actively involved in the plant ergonomics activities, job site work and wellness/fitness programming.(I never thought of myself as a gymrat, either). Best of all, I love it.
I am working on certification in ergonomics with the goal of being employed by the automaker directly as an ergonomist.
I spent a year and a half in a variety of settings in my home state of Michigan before landing this role. I would hire on as a garbage collector before re-entering the 'real world' of PT again.
Long story short- finish your degree. Don't borrow a dime that you don't absolutely have to. Live cheap and sacrifice now. Uncle Sam does not have a heart. Find something that interests you and be "actively engaged".
Remember, too, just becasue you are a PT now, does not mean you have to be a PT then (whenever that is). I made the decision to start my transition to another field when I realized that I could not envision myself as PT as a 'mature' person. I can't imagine what it would be like to be trying to transfer a geriatric stroke patient when I'm about to become one myself.
I am also going back to some skills I aquired while working in school. My wife and I are going to start buying homes, fixing them up and reselling them. I may still be working- but I like my coworker there quite a bit. [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
In any field you are going to have the proponents and the opponents. Weigh it out carefully and decide for yourself and get yourself good and calloused.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 28
Re: WHY? - October 10, 2002 11:34:00 AM   
Andrew M. Ball PT PhD

 

Posts: 922
Joined: July 29, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
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Very well stated.

I suggest that one of the many goals of the DPT is to create more out of the box thinkers who search niche-markets beyond inpatient neurorehab, pediatrics, or outpatient sports.

Being in many ways the embodiment of that vision, and without a DPT degree, I can see how it might depress the value of the DPT in your own mind. I can't disagree with that, but let's also recognize that in this area, you're not the norm of PT's.

Drew

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 29
Re: WHY? - October 25, 2002 4:11:00 AM   
goodlooks58

 

Posts: 456
Joined: October 22, 2002
From: CA
Status: offline
Bravo!!! you negative thinkers! There is no other profession like PT! The rewards, the smiles, the cakes and goodies from old ladies and the recognition "he is my therapist" at any Mall or grocery store. You get up in the morning, get dressed, get in your car, work from 8am-6pm Mon-Fri, come home, spend some time with your kids or pets and go to bed. The entire awake time is wrapped around your job. If you are unhappy or dislike your job, you are one seriously unhappy puppy!! How many times we see patients with psycho-somatic symptoms e.g. RSI or subjective pain more than oblective. Most of these patients are unhappy people. Unfortunately we as a society have never learned to put a dollar value to the working time in a positive environment. I have been in private practise for 18 years and have seen reimbursements reduce 20%, but I am not going to complain being a PT because I realized that as soon as the alarm rings at 6 am, I wake up with a good feeling of going to my clinic and being the best PT my abilities allow. Let me give you all negative thinkers a quick and easy solution to appreciate being a PT: Open a private practise! Yes, there are problems but as they say: No guts no glory!

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 30
Re: WHY? - October 26, 2002 2:10:00 PM   
goodlooks58

 

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Joined: October 22, 2002
From: CA
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I would like to respectfully respond to MCAP and ROSE: I have a 18 year old private practise in the Silicon Valley of San Francisco region. I saw a mass exodus of engineers laid off or sent back to which ever country they came from. So the effects were felt by every one in the surrounding region. I felt the effects in my business too. However, I question why it should cause effects in the other parts of the county. You guys never had the frenzy of computer related jobs as we had. As you all suggested that the PT job markets are ugly and the "future is bad" then why do I have extreme difficulty finding PTs to work? With desperation I signed up with a recruiter
and he was going to charge me an arm and a leg! I interviewed a decent PT who wanted $85,000 and with benefits was approx.$100,000. It took me a week to decide on her, I was late and she took a job with someone else. I then asked my current patients who are engineers that how come they still have their job? They said that now they have 2 hours of test in the interview process. In other words, you have to be excellent in what you do. So all the dead weight has been laid off.
This philosophy applies to PT also. I am still willing to pay someone $100K a year if they can do what I do so I can take a decent vacation. Is there anyone out there?!!! Yes, the living costs are higher in CA but you can still save money and not live paycheck to paycheck if planned well. I hope I have not offended anyone, I am just writing my observations.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 31
Re: WHY? - October 26, 2002 7:44:00 PM   
goodlooks58

 

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Joined: October 22, 2002
From: CA
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This is a reply to John Frazer. It occured to me that to a lay person when he has back pain he automatically thinks of chiro. At the same token, I, in my 18 years in PT private practise , have seen more spinal injuries than any other joints. PTs in general see more back pain than any other parts of the body. PTs have a serious PR problem with the general public. Are we doing anything about it?!!

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 32
Re: WHY? - October 27, 2002 3:37:00 AM   
Rose

 

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From: Ohio
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Goodlooks...... The "hit" occurred when PPS and the Balanced Budget Act came into being....therapists no longer determined how long a patient was treated and the whole billing process became a headache. Patients received less treatment time both under PPS and insurance company "reviewers' would cut benefits for therapies.....One insurance company I dealt with would not cover a stroke patient's therapy unless they required all 3 therapies......so an alert, oriented patient with no speech/language difficulties was denied rehab for their paretic side and inabilty to function independently because they did not require THREE therapies...... Thousands of therapists....PT,OT,ST..lost their jobs and went to work in other jobs/careers. Enrollment in schools dropped..some classes of PTA's in my area could not graduate because they could not find affiliations...the departments could not afford the time consumption for a student because of lowered staffing..... now with the push for DPT students are faced with increased tuition/loan payments with no significent increase in pay from a BS degree....the schools are happy...less students for more monies.......kinda like the whole healthcare world.... less staff...more work.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 33
Re: WHY? - October 27, 2002 1:48:00 PM   
goodlooks58

 

Posts: 456
Joined: October 22, 2002
From: CA
Status: offline
Rose: Sorry, the PPS and Balanced budget act caused no effect on my practise. That was then, I am stating the facts now. I feel PTs unhappy in the hospital environment should make amove to a private practise setting: this is difficult as private practise is hard, hospital environment is easy-this is becuase if I don't do good job as PT in privtae prac I will eventually not survive. This DPT situation is good! We as PTs are going through a change. Change is always uncomfortable. DPT, in my opnion will definitely increase the public's awareness, especially when being compared to chiros. Historically PTs have always been 2nd class citizens in the eyes of healthcare professionals. Hopefully with the DPT next to our names will put us to a higher esteem which will eventually convert to higher monies. Maybe this sounds simple but I am an optimist! When I went to school in the 80's there was the DRG dragon which everyone was afraid of. Then came Managed Care. Yes we went through a difficult time and it is slowly passing away. Many of my patients I saw in the 80's and 90's have changed to PPO plans. So everything changes, we just need to have patience.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 34
Re: WHY? - October 29, 2002 1:50:00 AM   
mcap56

 

Posts: 619
Joined: October 27, 2002
From: New York, NY
Status: offline
Goodlooks.....

Had a chance to skim some of my old posts from this thread........wheeewwwwww.....I must have been having a bad week (or year). I have never been labeled as an optomist but even that seemed a bit extreme.

I actually am a little more bullish on the future of PT right now. I do think things are headed in the right direction (they will be for my students anyway [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]

One thing still perplexes me though is the longevity factor. People leave the field after very short careers. This is something that needs to be addressed. There are a myriad of reasons (economic, physical, social, psychological). I really think the APTA needs to convene an expert panel consisting of academics and clincians from accross the spectrum to discuss the common frustrtations and what can be done about them on the educational level. The DPT will not be enough by itself.

Best,
Mcap

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 35
Re: WHY? - October 30, 2002 12:13:00 AM   
johnjfraser

 

Posts: 102
Joined: June 12, 2000
From: Staten Island, NY
Status: offline
Im sorry,
could you reiterate. Is this a reply from this thread?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodlooks58:
This is a reply to John Fraser. It occured to me that to a lay person when he has back pain he automatically thinks of chiro. [/QUOTE]

------------------
John J Fraser, PT, MS
johnjfraser@yahoo.com
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser]http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser[/URL]

[This message has been edited by johnjfraser (edited October 29, 2002).]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 36
Re: WHY? - October 30, 2002 10:49:00 PM   
goodlooks58

 

Posts: 456
Joined: October 22, 2002
From: CA
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Yes, October 1st posting

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Post #: 37
Re: WHY? - November 1, 2002 2:03:00 AM   
johnjfraser

 

Posts: 102
Joined: June 12, 2000
From: Staten Island, NY
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by goodlooks58:
PTs in general see more back pain than any other parts of the body. [/QUOTE]

I think this is partially attributed to our referral sources. For years PT was regarded as the profession that was within the medical arena that addressed musculoskeletal issues. But as chiro and other practitioners become more accepted into mainstream, this may change. Maybe.


[QUOTE]PTs have a serious PR problem with the general public. Are we doing anything about it?!![/B][/QUOTE]

As for this quote, the APTA has an ongoing PR program. This was ranked at the NYPTA Delegate Assembly as a high priority by the delegation. What you can do as a practitioner is educate your local media, politicians, fellow healthcare practitioners as to what we do as a profession, and what your practice offers. Sometimes your past patients are the best advocates for what we do. Encourage them to write letters as well.



------------------
John J Fraser, PT, MS
johnjfraser@yahoo.com
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser]http://www.geocities.com/johnjfraser[/URL]

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 38
Re: WHY? - November 11, 2002 12:35:00 PM   
coloradojulie

 

Posts: 413
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From: colorado usa
Status: offline
Just joined the forum...I find many of these views interesting and I think there is a common thread. We have people who are dissatisified with their profession as PTs and people who are very highly educated and articulate who are speaking "medicalease". Each of these persons are looking for the same thing out of their profession...recognition. Throughout the medical community, PTs are defined in so many ways...and many of these ways belittle our training and knowledge base. We are secretly envious of the DC (chiros), because I think we feel our education is comparable and yet we do not receive the same respect both publically and medically.
Deep down we are all deeply defensive of our profession because we believe in it and see the results we achieve. We disguise this with term like "evidence base practice"...isn't this really our way of proving to everyone else how really good we are?
The DPT is our attempt at gaining the same superficial recognition garnered by chiropractors...nothing more. For reimbursement and respect.
How offensive is it to be described as a massage therapist or to be forced to kiss the butt of our referring physicians who have no clue what we do? Somehow we think the DPT title will erase this.
You are one of two kinds of PTs...passive, modality oriented or dynamic and results oriented. The passive therapist brings the profession down and hinders our ability to achieve the professional respect we deserve.
The DPT is a bandaid...practice standards are key. Even evidence based practice is self-limiting.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 39
Re: WHY? - January 10, 2006 5:11:00 PM   
pilatespt

 

Posts: 9
Joined: August 4, 2002
Status: offline
No, it is worth it to stick it out and get that license. We will always need PTs here in America. No matter what anyone tells you, that PT license is a very good thing to have. The future of PT will only get better, especially to those dedicated to become the best PT they can be.

(in reply to soon2bpt)
Post #: 40
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