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Manual certification programs

 
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Manual certification programs - November 25, 2005 6:52:00 AM   
JSPT

 

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I am considering taking the OMPT program through Oakland University in Michigan. Has anyone gone through the program?

Any thoughts on taking a few classes here and there vs. being certified in a particular technique?

I have heard more experienced clinicians say that they got extra letters early in their careers, but now value a few classes here and there more. Has anyone gotten certified in something years ago and still adhere to that method now?

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JS
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Re: Manual certification programs - November 25, 2005 8:26:00 PM   
connie.pt

 

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JS, I'm in the OMPT program right now at Oakland, and I believe it's an excellent way to practice PT.

I worked for a private clinic in Southfield as a tech before graduating. The owners were some of the original Oakland OMPT grads (from way back when Kornelia Kulig was director). I know they strongly adhered to the OMPT system. They also had a contract to treat patients at a pain clinic in the same building, and they would teach the medical interns there how to conduct a neuromusculoskeletal exam.

I'm using them as one example here. I know quite a few other Oakland OMPTs who I look to as examples of what an excellent physical therapist is. (What I want to be when I grow up)

Connie

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Re: Manual certification programs - November 28, 2005 11:25:00 AM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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JS
I would use caution in learning any system that teaches a detailed method of manual palpatory diagnosis, which has been quite thoroghly refuted in the research literature.

The "Diagnosis and Palpation in Manual Tx" thread covers some of those issues.
J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 2, 2005 11:14:00 AM   
PHSPT

 

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JS,
I firmly believe in attaining any certification, especially in manual therapy. I had a great opportunity to attend a manual therapy residency w/ the US Army Baylor P.T's all of whom were fellows through FAAOMPT. The skills learned have enhanced my current practice, and in fact being a member of the Uniformed Services, I will be pursuing the fellowship FAAOMPT, throught the Army folks.
As far as lack of literature regarding manual therapy, i suggest Jason you log into the JOSPT (journal of orthopedic and sports physical therapy) plenty of research backing manual's therapy efficacy.
LTJG
U.S Public Health Service

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 12, 2005 11:49:00 AM   
BRuchin

 

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My question for all of you is this...
With there being so many different manual therapy cerifications and so many theories on treatment, how do you decide which one?

I am a recent grad who now wants to pursue a manual therapy certification. I do not know what programs to look into.

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 12, 2005 11:52:00 AM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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BRuchin-
See the "Diagnosis and Palpation in Manual Tx" thread. There's a wealth of info there.
I wouldn't consider anything that isn't a residency or fellowship program credentialed by APTA and AAOMPT.
The alphabet soup of CEU certifications seem more about money than skill or evidence.
J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 12, 2005 8:01:00 PM   
BRuchin

 

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Jason,
What do you think about Ola Grimsby??

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 13, 2005 8:52:00 AM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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I've never met him. Couldn't say.

However, if he and his program espouse a system of manual and manipulative therapy predicated on motion palpation and/or other well-refuted evaluative means, then I would consider it of little use.
Extremity mobilization based on sound biomechanical theories I've no issue with. It's the spinal area where things seem to go off into the ditch, so to speak.
I stand by my previous advice about APTA/AAOMPT credentialing.

PHSPT-
Didn't see your suggestion earlier. Let's not confuse issues. I'm not arguing against the efficacy of manual and manipulative therapy, I'm arguing against the motion palpation style of manual diagnosis that has been thoroughly refuted. These are two VERY different concepts.
And congrats on getting into the Baylor Fellowship, by the way.
J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 13, 2005 2:53:00 PM   
wjPT

 

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Jason,

How familiar are you with the NAIOMT system and the CMPT and COMT certifications.

I am a new grad and I work with a few therapist with the COMT cert and they are excellent manual therapist. I plan on going through the coursework at NAIOMT and obtaining the certifications.

warren

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Post #: 9
Re: Manual certification programs - December 13, 2005 3:56:00 PM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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Well, I can't comment specifically, but you should read the "Diagnosis and Palpation..." thread to understand why I am skeptical of many of the manual cert programs.
1. Structured experience and technique refinement - good.
2. Detailed manual palpatory diagnosis systems - bad.
Too bad almost all the cert programs make you do (and pay $$ for) lots of #2 before you get to #1. Bizarre. But makes sense, from a money perspective.

What's on those certification tests by the way? How to diagnose according to their particular manual palpatory model. Why would knowing that sort of system (again, which has been extensively refuted in the literature) help you?
J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

(in reply to JSPT)
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Re: Manual certification programs - December 13, 2005 7:51:00 PM   
BRuchin

 

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Jason, in your opinion, which do you think is a good basis to get a certification?

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 7:39:00 AM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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The only reason would be resume building or if you had money you wanted to get rid of.

My opinions are discussed in detail on the other thread I referenced. I believe mentorship, skill and practice in techniques, and clinical reasoning are important in manual therapy training. You usually get very little of this at CEU courses from an alphabet soup manual therapy cert provider. You get tons of this at a residency or fellowship program. That's why I recommend those.

What do you get a lot of at CEU courses? Manual palpatory diagnostic schemes -- you know, FRS, ERS, etc. Especially in the first few (mandatory to progress, by the way) seminars. Almost all of these CEU providers are the same! They want you to go in and get indoctrinated in how to do motion palpation analysis, which is a flawed diagnostic scheme, then they build everything from that. So your first 200-500 bucks is wasted before they will really start to do anything of quality.
There are providers, such as the people from Evidence in Motion, who deliberately de-emphasize the manual palpatory diagnosis, and focus on more important things, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule.

I think people who have spent lots of $$ on their cert and done a lot with the organization are bound to think it's the best or it's really great. But the FAAOMPTs I have worked with see more value in building skills through mentorship and practice than in learning how to find and correct an FRS L at T4/5. This super-detailed arthrokinematic approach is clearly flawed, but is still taught via tradition. That doesn't sound like EBP to me. I have built my (admittedly modest and basic) skills through mentorship and practice, I've done no CEU work with the major CEU providers in manual therapy, and my patients seem to do pretty well, about the same as the manual therapy literature suggests. What do they have to offer me? Nothing. If you are working with a good manual PT who is mentoring you and building your skills while you practice with patients, then what do these groups have to offer you? Nothing.

I believe mentorship and experience are the critical issues to manual skill development, even if it's just practice with a peer. If i'm stuck somewhere without a good more experienced PT, I might do some CEU work here and there. But the cert programs are a waste of time, as far as I'm concerned. They have value in building someone else a business and in building your resume(which is a good nonclinical reason to get one), but that's about it.
End of rant. :)
J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 11:17:00 AM   
johngoodrich

 

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Jason, I went through certification quite a while ago, and I have some observations. When I went to PT school, manual therapy training was very limited and sometimes non-existent, and orthopaedic training was far from advanced. What I got out of the certification process was (1) comprehensive training in orthopaedics, (2) advanced manual skills, (3) the experience of being tested, and (4) a point of reference from which to base my practice patterns. I would also suggest that at that time there really was very little else out there of quality along these lines; that these were the people that were in the trenches for a long time prior to the advent of our current crop of therapists such as at Evidence in Motion; that they continue to be at the forefront of protecting our right to practice manual therapy, and,at least from my experience, they did focus on what evidence was available at the time. Since then, I have taken a number of courses to fill in the gaps, hone evaluation and treatment techniques, etc. Now, more student interns come into the clinic with better exposure to manual therapy and research skills, and there are a number of evidence focused offerings out there including the advanced practice series through the APTA, the evidence in motion people, George Davies has courses on knee and shoulder that heavily emphasize evidence, etc. In the last course I took on the lumbo-pelvice region with Childs and Wainner, I believe it was easier for me than some of the other students to grasp the evaluation and treatment procedures, and I also found it relatively easy to objectively move into that model. The point I'm making is that given the current climate, there are a number of courses that offer excellent training in manual therapy that make certification unnecessary,and, if one has the time and money, there are a number of quality residency programs. On the other hand, if one has a relatively weak background in manual therapy and orthopaedics, does not have access to a qualified mentor, or wants repeated opportunities to practice and test skills, and has an open mind,this route may be worth considering. I like to think that they will adapt their programs to emerging evidence, but who knows?

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 12:26:00 PM   
srcase

 

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When I specifically asked Oakland University's director what the OMPT program had to offer over other manual programs in the country, she said "mentorship". The OMPT program instructors are both FAAOMPT certified, and the program includes 80 hours of residency. They do not teach palpatory diagnosis (FRS or ERS type things), but base the coursework on the works/research from Bogduk, Twomey, Kapanji, Richardson/Hides, Katltenborn and Evjenth, among others. The program was originally founded by Kornelia Kulig who is currently doing research at USC. They teach in-depth critical thinking based on evidence-based practice, basic and advanced orthopedic science, and clinical hypothesis-building. Certified students are more than prepared to take the OCS, and the program is seeking credentials through the APTA currently.
This is not a CEU course, but a two-year (17 credit) program of study accredited through the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools. The credits can also be applied toward the Master of Science of Doctor of Science degrees at OU.
Just wanted to clear up any misunderstandings and also put a pitch in for my alma mater.
Sarah

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 1:55:00 PM   
FLAOrthoPT

 

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I still agree with some poor reliability and maybe poor validity with manual diagnosis, but how is it that therapists with more manual training can often times get a patient who has not been able to advance in the past better? I have seen a patient recently, another PT, who went to a DO, a chiro, and 3 PTS none that could help long term. Only the chiro could give temporary relief. I did a LOT of manual diagnosis with palpation static and movement of her T-spine and found for myself a hypermobile segement. I told her to avoid manipulations at all costs. I worked with her twice working on PNF, nm re-ed of her hypermobile segment, and her pain has been gone for 6 months. Now, without my training I would have never found this, nor known how to treat it? This is not a one time example. I stillt hink manual training has its benefits, but should not be the end all be all like some my think. but to dismay it all together is just plain silly..

PS I love the IMTS global and IPA courses for manual training, I also agree with the IAOM. The canadian system is very in depth, but I think it is a bit of an overkill. Paris (CMT) seems to be a bit of an underkill, a bit too watered down and narrow thinking. And weiselfish's MET work on the spine I think is pretty good too. just my opinion on manual certs. If I wanted to pay the money, I'd go CFMT right now.
Ben

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 2:22:00 PM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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Ben-
Surely you understand the logical flaws in your first argument? Would you really like me to respond? There is no evidence (not anecdote, evidence) that a certain type of training results in superior outcomes. Any organization comparing it's certificants to PTs without such training would stand to make a mint of money if they could prove that their "system" was better. There's been plenty of time and money in those groups, by all accounts. Why do you suppose such an outcome study has not been done?

I am interested in why you like the programs you do, as despite my sarcasm, I do think you're an excellent therapist and I respect your opinion. Plus we got our OCS together, so that counts for something. What factors are you judging these groups on?

jwg, sarah-
Now THOSE are good reasons to pursue those programs!
These sound exactly like the type of program I am encouraging people to seek out.

My argument with manual therapy cert programs is strictly with their over-reliance on arthrokinematic palpatory self-delusion, and not on the many other excellent factors you two bring up.
While I agree that being tested is important, my quarrel is that many of the answers they are looking for lie in these sorts of illusory models.

Can someone else post a good program or cert in manipulative therapy which specifically mentions that it does not emphasize the motion palpation diagnostic scheme? That would be a useful list.

Can anyone post any evidence showing that an alphabet soup manual cert (CFMT, OMPT, ABC, XYZ, etc) improves outcomes in a certain population? That would also be a useful list of studies.

J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 4:02:00 PM   
FLAOrthoPT

 

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I would love to see the research about improved clinical outcomes with advanced professional degrees. I truly feel that you would see higher efficiency and possibly better outcomes. I do think that the FAAOMT for example is somewhat of a guru in the orthopedic field. I do think from wokring with therapists and staffing over 400 therapists a year, that the ones with more initials after their name at least demonstrate a responsibility to the profession and a need to learn more and not be stagnant. Are there PTs with no initials and a bachelor's degree that are amazing?! of course!!!!!But I think the whole reason people with higher advance degrees get hired in any profession is because it demonstrates a person who is willing to be a life long learner, someone who has a thirst for knowledge, someone who can stick to something once they start, etc, etc. Advanced certifications and schooling absolutely should mean a better therapist. I would have to think that if you had 100 PTs and 50 had no advanced training, and 50 had OCS or some other advanced training, you would see higher competency in the advanced degree group. This is an impossible research to perform though because A)of course there will be some very good non advanced clinicians, but mainly because you cannot have any blind study with the same patients being treated. Maybe the only way to do it is to have case study exams, and see how each performs on the test.

I do not think everyone needs to have advanced training, nor do i think I am better than someone for having it. But my thirst for knowledge to treat those tougher patients and be efficient in treating leads me down the paths of higher and higher education, hence obtaining my DPt this summer, getting my OCS and taking way too many cont ed courses. But I have not taken any specific certification because I see value in learning many schools of thoughts, and do not see any value in obtaining a certfication that costs me that much money that the day before taking I am the same therapist and now after paying a couple of thousand I am better? I also do not think the public or even many PTs know the difference or what a CFMT, or a CMT, or a COMT, FAAOMT, etc even is. So, congrats to those who obtain it, I do think it says a lot, and if I had to find a therapist for a friend in another state, I always look for at least an OCS but preferable a CFMT, COMT, etc after their name. Sure, the guy next door to them may be awesome, but there is a certainty in the proficiency of the therapist who has taken the time and skills to obtain these further degrees.


Now, I am not bashing or promoting specific systems, like the CFMT, I think someone asked which we recommend, and that is the one I recommend. Based on MY experiences with the courses. I have taken courses with all of the systems, and I said it was MY opinion. I have taken all of level 1 and 2 of the canadians I mean 57 different stress tests for the feet is a bit absurd considering the treatment is going to not change much even with that higher knowledhe, mckenzie (donot believe in most of it), paris (worthless watered down), mulligan (good theory when applied to other techniques), CTI and LPI of the IMTS global, FO1 of the ipa, i own the book MET and beyond of weiselfish I like it, i have maitland's two books on vertebral manip not too bad, recently i have taken 2 IAOM courses and love their evidence backed teachings and how they talk about the need for identifying both the structural and functional processes causing pain. So, all of this is based purely on my opinion, based on which ones are useable systems, and based on which systems give me results.

Ok talk to you soon I am sure,
need to go shoot some hoops-
Ben

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 5:38:00 PM   
JLS_PT_OCS

 

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Thanks Ben.
Do the IAOM courses do motion palpation diagnostics?

J

_____________________________

Jason Silvernail DPT
Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.silvernailstudios.com
jasonsilvernail@gmail.com

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 5:51:00 PM   
FLAOrthoPT

 

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some, not so many. They are cyriax based. They have a lot of research back up for anything they clain in their courses. They like to work close with an anethetist to help with diff. diag and treatment to help block or inject suspected pain causing tissues. But all in all, very good organization. Even if you feel that the join tis not stuck per se, it still tells you something about muscle tone or nerve irritation or muscle control, etc by palpating with motion doesn't it? I still do not get why you are so against it?

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Re: Manual certification programs - December 14, 2005 8:49:00 PM   
wjPT

 

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Ben and Jason,

thanks for the detailed posts on your opinions and recommendations for manual therapy certs. Your responses will help in my search for the most beneficial con ed courses to attend.

warren

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