McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (Full Version)

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greghouse -> McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 20, 2011 2:47:04 PM)

Has anyone taken the McKenzie extremity course?
Can you describe the shoulder and hip mob's?  I took part A but I'm not going to take the next 2 and wanted to know how to perform it and what has your experience with it been?
Cheers!




rwillcott -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 21, 2011 10:38:58 AM)

If looking for effective mobs of the extremities and spine for that matter, I would recommend Mulligan techniques.




greghouse -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 21, 2011 10:52:55 AM)

I know the Mulligan mob's but wanted to see if anyone used the MacKenzie method for the extremeties, since I'm not familiar with them.




AK PT -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 21, 2011 3:46:18 PM)

McKenzie shoulder MOBs... PA to C5 followed with some extension/retractions???




gerry -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 22, 2011 9:36:14 AM)

I try not to chime in every single time frozen shoulders come up, but the combination of McKenzie and frozen shoulders was too much to resist. I have had adhesive capsulitis in both shoulders, a couple of years apart from each other. Both are fully recovered.

I spent a lot of time looking for a local PT who could help during the first one (I have always worked in peds, so my knowledge was limited about frozen shoulders). One of the PTs I visited had lots of the McKenzie certifications and displayed them all over the office waiting room. When I asked about treatment for my shoulder, she said she worked patients with this diagnosis very hard, and made them cry. She was pround of this.

I kept looking, and have never referred anyone to that clinic.

Although I will say that I do not know that it is a McKenzie protocol she used for this diagnosis. But she did talk about all her McKenzie training in the same conversation.




Myostrain -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 22, 2011 2:22:16 PM)

McKenzie to the extremities seems a bit of a stretch though the main principle of centralizing vs peripheralizing symptoms could relate to any joint although the dynamics underlying that principle would vary based on the joint.
That story seems a bit stretched from what I know of McKenzie symptom/exercise toleration

To a certain degree, C-T spine McKenzie exercises can be a benefit for some shoulder patients.  That or being aware of the segmental facilitation/segmental hypertonicity/segmental tone or whatever verbage for abnormal C3-T2 findings concurrent with the shoulder condition.






TLB -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (April 30, 2011 5:02:56 AM)

Haters not allowed....good lord what's your problem?




gerry -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 2, 2011 11:02:09 AM)

Wow. First time I have ever been called a hater. I appologize for whatever it was in my post that came across that way. If you have a chance, please look at old posts of mine, how long I have been a member here, and hopefully get a feel for a different tone than the one you perceived in this post. I'm also not trying to stir things up by responding to your post. I want to honestly try to clarify my post, because perhaps others also read it the same way you did.

Let me repeat that I do not know that the PT I talked with treated frozen shoulders with McKenzie techniques. I do not know what Mckenzie techniques would be used for a frozen shoulder. I have not been to any Mckenzie continuing education courses. I was trying to share a conversation I had with a PT who promoted herself heavily as a McKenzie trained therapist, and who boasted about stretching patients with frozen shoulders so hard that they cried. The discussion with her wove these two ideas together so that she appeared to be saying she treated shoulders with these techniques. But as I stated, I do not know for sure that the techniques she utilized for frozen shoulders are McKenzie based. I have read many studies on the McKenzie method for spines, and give major props to the folks who have done so much research on this method.

I appologize to greghouse, becuase I really did not answer his question. I do not know the McKenzie method for frozen shoulders. I did want to share with greghouse the conversation I had with a PT who reportedly did use this method.

My response was flavored by experience with two frozen shoulders. This is a difficult diagnosis, and one I do not think is well understood. My personal experience leads me to think pushing patients with frozen shoulders through pain is not beneficial to recovery.

I truely hope that helps, TLB.




bonez -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 2, 2011 1:18:48 PM)

Gerry I for one did not get that flavor from your first post.




Tom Peterson -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 3, 2011 1:21:58 PM)

Just an observation, but the title of this topic is: "McKenzie technique fro the shoulder", but I think he meant "...FOR the shoulder", not frozen shoulder.




gerry -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 3, 2011 1:37:40 PM)

Oops... As Gilda Radner used to say: Nevermind... [:)]




ptim -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 16, 2011 4:26:42 PM)

There are no real shoulder or hip mobs in the McKenzie system.
You assess them and try and classify them into one of the syndromes.
Generally either a joint derangement, a contractile dysfunction (tendonosis) or an articular dysfunction (capsulitis/fz shoulder)
If its one of the dysfunctions you load the affected structure to remodel it, several times per day over several weeks. McKenzie would say the only person who can remodel dysfunctional tissue is the patient, so no hands on techniques.
With the derangement syndrome there are a couple of key movements for reduction, in the shoulder these are extension and internal rotation, performed passively (by patient) repeatedly and to end range, in the hip, extension +/- internal rotation, usually performed loaded. These are the common reductive movements, if these don't work then start looking at other repeated end range movements. Could you mobilize, sure, over-pressure or mobilize in the direction of preference.
Remodelling of the frozen shoulder is the same as any dysfunction in the McKenzie system, repeaded end range motion that produces the pain, but never remains worse, several times per day for several weeks, McKenzie found repeated internal rotation worked best.
Extremity joints don't centralize or peripheralize.




ptim -> RE: McKenzie technique fro the shoulder (May 24, 2011 9:25:34 AM)

Greghouse
Who did you take part A with?
Did you like/not like the course?




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