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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 29, 2005 4:40:00 AM
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Yogi
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From: San Antonio, Tx., USA
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Lots of new research on inflammation, I think it was Time magazine last year that devoted an issue to it.
Ginger may be ahead of the physiologists on this one, anatomists and physiologists still have a lot to learn. There was a spinal structure that was discovered to be innervated, previously thought not to be, not that many years ago.
As in most fields, Physiologists research in their areas of interests. Sometimes those specifics relate to PT and we have to assimilate the new knowledge.
Personally, I think Ginger's theory is logical. It does not fly in the face of known neurological pathways as far as tone goes. Or neural deformation theories. The inflammation part remains to be seen, there may be another mechanisms at work here.
But I never argue with success.
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 29, 2005 7:05:00 AM
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apolipo
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
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[QUOTE] [/QUOTE]The inflammation part remains to be seen, there may be another mechanisms at work here. But I never argue with success. [QUOTE] [/QUOTE]On this, I agree with Yogi. Would I like to see a RCT or two and support from outcome studies? Certainly, but I would also like to see these for many forms of therapy that are successful with certain pts. despite a lack of "proof" or a solid theory.
Am I going to do a complete turnaround on my methods of treatment and focus solely on spinal joint mobs? No. Would I be willing to give them a try as long as I could perform them safely and effectively? Why not.
mike t
p.s. Ginger, I would try to refrain from the use of the word "converts". My first mental image is of glassy-eyed folks waiting for the mother ship to take them to Planet Zoo-Ba while their life savings are extracted by the "Glorious Leader" and placed in his Swiss bank account. :D
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 29, 2005 7:54:00 AM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1691
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From: Amherst, WI
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Yogi,
Perhaps all that's missing for a patient with spastic cerebral palsy are passive spinal mobilizations then.
In cases of spasticity, to my eyes, the spastic muscle has a greater cross sectional area than its non-spastic antagonist.
jon
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[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 29, 2005 5:09:00 PM
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ginger
Posts: 646
Joined: February 26, 2005
From: Melbourne Victoria
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MikeT, planet Zorg actually, the mother ship will allow each of us to take at least two earthlings back with us when out time is up. I'm still looking.
G
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Ubi est mea anaticula cumminosa?
The Grand Pediculator
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 30, 2005 6:59:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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Yogi/Mike-
It IS hard to argue with success. However, we've seen none of that, yet. I think Jon is trying to elucidate an argument other than "it's so because I say it's so, and it makes sense."
Creationism makes sense and is argued to be so because some say it's so. I'm trying to figure out why Geoff's theory is different than Creationism, and I can't.
This is illustrative of the kind of guru-ism our profession is plagued with. This sounds like every other CEU course mailer that comes to my door every day. "Get astounding results with your patients for any problem, proven techniques practiced for years with success by Dr XYZ, just register here and pay $$$ to sign up, hurry while seats left!"
Why should we not dismiss this as irrelevant to practice?
Geoff is clearly very educated and intelligent, and it is indeed an interesting theory, but doesn't seem useful beyond a theoretical discussion. Jon is doing a much better job than I about teasing out the specifics, so I am happy to leave the smart questions to him.
J
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - September 30, 2005 12:34:00 PM
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Yogi
Posts: 403
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From: San Antonio, Tx., USA
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Scepticism is not a bad thing, as Mike hilariously reminds us.
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - October 1, 2005 10:27:00 PM
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ginger
Posts: 646
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From: Melbourne Victoria
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Jason, since when does creationism make sense?, a bigger load of pure twaddle has never been foisted on a gullible public . I offer my thoughts and practicum here for you and others to accept or reject on the basis of it's wisdom or lack therof. Feel free to reject if you have TRIED IT and it didn't work, but your insistance on theory to provide sufficient power to the moment of choice is silly. Use your hands to keep you safe Jason from making a choice that is not worthy of you or your ideals about outcomes. Reject my memos as you wish , just be careful that in the process of uttering worthy pronouncements of who is right and who is wrong that you may miss an opportunity I offer for free.
You flatter me beyond measure with your reference to me as a guru, I assure you I'm not worthy of that title. I'm just a simple country boy with the willingness to expose the realisations that have occurred to me. I ask onlt that you listen and TRY it. If you are unsure of the method , I won't think less of you for asking for repeats of any aspect of continuous mobilisation and the means to reveal referred pain and altered sensations. You are welcome to my research, my students work and anything that propels you forward into understanding. I'm not a quitter Jason , are you?
_____________________________
Ubi est mea anaticula cumminosa?
The Grand Pediculator
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - October 2, 2005 5:53:00 PM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
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From: USA
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'course not.
Creationism makes sense if you assume a great many things. (none of which I am prepared to do).
I made no pronouncements of who's right and who's wrong.
But the costs of the fish aquarium alone are quite beyond my modest means...
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Restricted Shoulder Abduction - October 3, 2005 3:56:00 PM
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ginger
Posts: 646
Joined: February 26, 2005
From: Melbourne Victoria
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Just start with a bowl then, guppies are cheap.
what the?, how did you get me onto aquariums, you should be jason silvertongue not homo vegetus.
_____________________________
Ubi est mea anaticula cumminosa?
The Grand Pediculator
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