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RE: chiropractic lawsuit
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 19, 2008 11:03:56 PM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1697
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From: Amherst, WI
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Thanks Rod,
I also found this(<--Click it)
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CNN Interview on June 24th - June 20, 2008 6:44:23 PM
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T_Thom
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CNN to air segment of chiropractic, stroke
CNN’ American Morning is scheduled to air a segment about the purported association between chiropractic cervical manipulation and vertebral artery dissection on June 24.
A CNN production team visited the offices of the American Chiropractic Association (ACA) and spoke with Kevin Corcoran, executive vice president for advice about how consumers should select a doctor of chiropractic and what they can expect during their first office visit.
To round out the segment, CNN also planned to speak with two doctors of chiropractic, a neurologist, and of a patient who suffered a stroke. ACA is planning to monitor the broadcast and will respond as needed on behalf of the profession.
Source: American Chiropractic Association, www.acatoday.com
Here is a link to another CNN article published on March 21, 2008:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/21/healthmag.stroke/index.html
Story Highlights
Women are disproportionately affected by some surprising stroke causesTilting the neck back too far during a salon shampoo can tear arteriesBirth control pills also increase stroke risk, probably related to estrogenRisk is low, but stroke can happen during chiropractic neck adjustment
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RE: CNN Interview on June 24th - June 20, 2008 9:29:33 PM
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proud
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Nice to see the ACA spending it's time monitering the media.....
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RE: CNN Interview on June 24th - June 21, 2008 1:23:42 AM
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T_Thom
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and prepared to fire back, from it way it sounds... I wonder if this is going to be a commercial, rather than a discussion.
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RE: CNN Interview on June 24th - June 21, 2008 8:54:32 AM
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TexasOrtho
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My guess would be more of a commercial. CNN is pretty skilled at that.
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 2:41:08 PM
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Wellness4all
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What is sadly missed in this discussion is a balanced voice that realizes there are issues of malpractice in every field of medical practitioners.
Chiropractors are not exclusive to mistakes. No one is perfect in any field, nor above reproach. I know too many people who are permanently disabled from botched back surgeries or knee surgeries, crippled for life...or...this list could go on if your really think about it. I know others who were given inappropriate medications for their situations and have to live the rest of their lives suffering the consequences of a bad heart, or joint problems, or...etc. I've experienced a situation with a PT who totally dismissed significant symptoms when treating a patient and failed to document half of what the patient experienced, costing the patient medical coverage for the injury...as well as treatment for what was really wrong, and lead to years of suffering. I've watched medical doctors put "product and profit" over the actual patient's health, and experienced it first hand myself, and still have health problems because of it. Look at pharmaceutical companies who put a drug out that causes more harm than good--for the sake of profit--only to be pulled from the shelf after death or permanent damage. Or doctors who overmedicate their patients who put their trust in them to heal.
As someone who studied traditional medicine, worked in the sports medicine field, and was warned against chiropractors from early on, I had a back injury and suffered in constant pain for 5 years under the care of med docs and pt, who I worked with. I finally allowed a chiropractor to work on my back. In three months I was pain free!! I believe that there is a balance that should be found that would benefit the patient and overall healthcare, but territorial rights seem to reign. Walls of pride have been erected that get in the way.
Don't throw stones at an entire league of practioners, when EVERY field has their bad eggs...or they just have practitioners with good intentions who make mistakes.
Who can really throw that first stone?
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 3:13:35 PM
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TexasOrtho
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I appreciate your call for peace in a nostalgic kind of way "Wellness4all". However, the first stone was thrown long ago and we are left fighting for policy, solvency, as well as hearts and minds of the public. The best way to get run-over is to wander around the middle of the road on this issue.
No one is claiming perfection, but we are physical therapists who must protect and strengthen our profession. We won't do that by letting the chiros (or anyone for that matter) make claims that weaken or threaten our ability to practice. Instead of invoking the first stone quotation, I might instead refer to the latin phrase lex talonis.
If we can find a satisfactory equilibrium down the road, I'll be less vigilant. Unfortunately until that time comes, it's last profession standing.
< Message edited by TexasOrtho -- June 21, 2008 4:04:56 PM >
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 4:14:54 PM
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Wellness4all
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Texas-
Like I said, I've experienced both sides--patient on both, working on the other--and I've only heard negativity coming from med doctors and PT's regarding chiropractors. In fact, I've never heard any of the many chiropractors that I've either been treated by or socialized with over the past twenty years ever say one negative word about the PT field. I believe both sides have a place in helping patients. Both sides have made mistakes that have cost patients more than it should have whether physcially, emotionally or financially.
But, when pride is involved, a whole lot of communication falls away, and what's left is the patient in the middle--I can currently speak from that painful position, but will not go into detail about my OS who caused me GREAT suffering that continues because of an action he neglectfully made. But his surgical skills are praise-worthy, yet still he's not perfect and I forgive him.
I can speak about my own personal pride and prejudice that had been engrained into me through the medical education that I'd recieved and the people I practiced under/with that kept me from going to a chiropractor for my pain for FIVE years. When my pride finally broke enough through suffering, I went to the chiropractor wanting him to prove himself...again, I was pain free in three months. The prejudice and bad-mouthing regarding chiropractors no longer made any sense.
I will say that my overall health has NEVER suffered under the care of a chiropractor/naturaopath. So this dogging I feel is pride and possibly a lack of knowledge. Pride keeps a whole slew of healing from happening. But some will never admit it, and so it goes....
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 4:54:20 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
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From: Barrie, Canada
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Wellness - glad your experiences were good.
I find it strange however, that this old horse gets pulled out of the stable. This Tu quoque argument is a form belonging to the ad hominem class. Personal attack-class.
Because others at times are bad too , this is not really a valid discussion?
No, we ARE discussing chiropractic - vigorously. As we have in the past with many PT-subjects.
How can it be bad to closely examine present day practices, especially when there is intense scrutiny by legal and media sources?
Start a new thread about a BIG a lawsuit against a PT-technique accused of resulting in stroke or death, and we will have an equally vigorous discussion - guaranteed.
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 5:56:34 PM
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Wellness4all
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And so it goes...
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 6:51:55 PM
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proud
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wellness4all
And so it goes...
Indeed.
Wellness....all of your "arguments" are typical chiropractic dribble with so many holes in the theory it's hardly worth discussing any further. Anyone articulate enough in a court of law would have a field day with those arguments.
When discussing upper cervical spine manipulation....we cannot attempt to link that to ANY true health care service. Risk/benefit is the cornerstone of any credible profession. Chiropractic should spend less time monitoring the media and much more time monitoring itself....
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 8:02:36 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
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From: Barrie, Canada
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Wellness, what kind of response is that?
It is not as if I slammed chiro, you or anyone else. I make a point - reasonably I'd say, and you come up with a juvenile pout?!?
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 8:06:03 PM
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Wellness4all
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Proud,
I didn't realize I was arguing "in court", just tying to shed light that NO area of the health profession is perfect. No person is perfect, and things happen. Just like in my situation with my OS...things happen, and it almost cost me my life because of his assumptions, and I'm still battling to get my health back. Did he take a risk with my health? Yes. Did he make the mistake on purpose? No. Did he make a mistake? Yes.
The comment was meant for "people" to get off their high horse and realize that NO ONE is perfect.
Not even the court of law.
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 8:13:58 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1105
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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And that is news?
"Nobody is perfect."
Do you realize that you just have committed the behaviour you accuse us here of? Yes, the "high horse" behaviour.
Funny if it wasn;t sad....
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 8:37:17 PM
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Wellness4all
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Sebastian,
" juvenile pout?!? "
Not a pout and, but basically a point that things may never change between two professions that I have a great deal of respect for that can co-exist and help patients without all of THIS "juvenile" slamming. How many medical mistakes occur that don't and will never make it to court...does that make them any less of a mistake or costly for a person?
I commend you for your passion for your profession, as well you should be for the sake of your patients...but when it gets in the way of an even bigger picture, and keeps people from getting the help they need, then what has really been accomplished? OT's and PT's do not have all the answers. Chiropractors do not have all the answers. Medical doctors do not have all the answers...No one does, and none are above reproach...that's all I'm trying to say in the midst of a thread that has a few posts excited that this may be the end of a practice that has helped me, and many others I know, live pain-free. No Chiropractic dribble...just personal experience over 20 years dealing with both sides of this fence.
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 8:40:29 PM
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Wellness4all
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Sebatian,
"Do you realize that you just have committed the behaviour you accuse us here of? Yes, the "high horse" behaviour.
Funny if it wasn;t sad.... "
Not sure what you mean here. Can you explain?
And why are you so hostile?
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 9:10:38 PM
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TexasOrtho
Posts: 423
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Wellness4all. Would you mind sharing your background with us?
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 9:42:59 PM
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proud
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quote:
... but basically a point that things may never change between two professions that I have a great deal of respect for that can co-exist and help patients without all of THIS "juvenile" slamming.
Two things Wellness:
1. There is nothing to compare between the two. There is no need for co-existing. What would be the point in having two types of orthopeadic surgeon? Eventually, the one with the most scientific credibility and regulatory integrity would be the one to prevail....leaving the other one to flounder and disappear. Less confusing to the general public.
2. And have a look around my friend....EVERY credible profession slams chiropractic. Be it your general physician, Orthopeadic surgeons, neurologists and surgeons, peadiatricians....the list goes on and on and on. Sad for those within chiropractic who remain current and attempt to operate an ethical practice( several that post here). But it's a sinking ship.
Why? Because the fundamentals are pseudo-science. The majority defend it's principles because without it....they have no identity. They essentially become just one of many "back crackers" out there that apply it without really knowing the how and why and the when of the procedure.
Why else? Because instead of looking at the conflicting data that exists regarding the risk/benefit of upper C-spine manipulation, Chiropractic chooses to "select" that which supports their ability to continue to generate income. When the professional thing to do would be to recommend to it's members to discontinue it's use pending a definitive answer.
Why esle? Because quite often, chiropractors post positive things under the guise of being a patient making the profession look like it has rather intellectually bizzare people within it.....THAT does not help either "wellness"....
P.S: Thanks for that...."things happen"....I laughed out loud. I'm sure my provincial regulatory body would cover me with that defense. Hilarious.
< Message edited by proud -- June 21, 2008 9:57:23 PM >
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 10:12:17 PM
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Wellness4all
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Joined: June 21, 2008
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And so my point continues,
BUT I shall sign off as it's hard to discuss in a professional, open-minded manner between those who see the AMA and it's train of education as the answer for ALL health problems. I know your plight, as I have been where you are and would have made the hard arguements as well. I'm thankful that my mind was opened years ago--not just to the value of traditional chiropractic care but MANY other alternative options that the AMA readily slams ---I will no longer lead others astray.
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RE: chiropractic lawsuit - June 21, 2008 10:19:46 PM
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proud
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Joined: March 22, 2006
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And there it is folks...the "coup de'etat" of the chiropractic drum line....the EVIL AMA out to get them....yes, my eyes are rolling...slowly into the back of my head.
Bye "wellness"...
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