Measuring knee extension (Full Version)

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bonmar -> Measuring knee extension (June 12, 2008 8:54:02 PM)

There is a little discussion going on at my work re: how to say someone has a loss of 5 degrees knee extension.

Do you say -5 degrees or +5 degrees?



jma -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 12, 2008 9:52:08 PM)

I'll say -5 degrees as stated in Norkin and White's, "Measurement of Joint Motion", 3rd edition, p.34



Sebastian Asselbergs -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 12, 2008 10:12:40 PM)

I call it: a little loss of extension..... [:D]

But really, it makes sense to indicate a lack of something by using the minus sign. Although logically when we call a straight knee "0", a lack of 5 degrees "-5", then we should really call flexion of 60 degrees: " -60".... But hey - y'all know I am anal about stuff.



SJBird55 -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 12, 2008 10:33:22 PM)

-5 degrees because the person cannot achieve 0 degrees.  +5 indicates a hyperextension.  The measurement is the amount of motion from neutral.



bonmar -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 13, 2008 5:59:53 AM)

I agree with the -5. However, someone at my work is pretty adamant about the +5 and I just wanted to get some more feedback. 



Tom Reeves DPT ATC -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 13, 2008 7:53:31 AM)

I agree with the -5 deg. but i usually get bas-like (anal) and make it perfectly clear by saying "5 deg. short of full".  You never know who is going to read your chart and what their expectation might be and I can't stand the thought of switching back and forth for different referral sources.



SJBird55 -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 13, 2008 8:04:39 AM)

And to think that I thought that our measurements were standardized!  I've never thought any further about why the -5 or the +5 and accepted it as being what it is.



Nicole Matoushek PT MPH CSHE CEES -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 13, 2008 9:42:05 AM)

I agree with the -5, with + 5 being hyper extension.



OAK -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 13, 2008 6:13:46 PM)

Just to keep things interesting.  In geometry, -ve angles indicate clockwise movement, and +ve indicate counterclockwise movement.




Sebastian Asselbergs -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 14, 2008 9:47:06 AM)

...and "+" indicates above zero, and "-" below zero....Just to make it a bit more messy. [:D]

That is why in such cases, I tend to use what Tom uses...words.



annpsu25 -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 14, 2008 11:39:41 PM)

Where I'm interning, we use -5 when measuring when pt. does not achieve full extension.  However, in school we were taught to use +5, but had to be aware that state boards may use either (which could be a controversial question).



hmgross -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 16, 2008 11:18:06 PM)

And I thought I was the only one who struggled with this one!  I write it out, or at IE write PROM is 5-85 degrees. I usually picture a "line graph" in terms of ROM where beyond 0 would be in the negative, so I think it can get confusing.



steve -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 17, 2008 12:41:50 PM)

Wow, we are all over the place. I write out 5 degrees flexion to 85 degrees flexion...

Steve



TexasOrtho -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 17, 2008 1:23:35 PM)

I'll add another version to the mix:
  • 5 - 85 degrees (80 degree arc of motion with 5 degree extension deficit)
  • 0 -85 degrees (85 degree arc of motion with normal extension)
  • 5 - 0 - 85 degrees (5 degrees of hyper extension through 85 degrees of flexion)

It's the way some of the orthopedists used to do it when I was in school at UTMB.  It just stuck with me.




kiwi PT -> RE: Measuring knee extension (June 17, 2008 5:13:56 PM)

I was taught similar to Rod, alaways put 3 numbers one them a 0 and its pretty clear

0-5-85, 5-0-85



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