Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (Full Version)

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Nef -> Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 12, 2008 10:48:53 PM)

Hello all.  Student here just started my affiliation in an outpatient ortho/sports rehab clinic and my CI asked me to find out what the advantages are of the combination of e-stim and ultrasound used simultaneously..   I have not been able to find any articles on it so am wondering if any of you guys can help me out by pointing me to where I can read about it or just talking about it..

Thank you.



SJBird55 -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 7:11:47 AM)

If you want to make waves... politely educate your CI that there is very little outcome research to support ultrasound.  Ultrasound may be beneficial for calcific tendonitis of the shoulder.  Through the process of logic, since there is little benefit for ultrasound then why would there be benefit from a combination of electrical stimulation and ultrasound? 

Even from a billing viewpoint.. where is the advantage?  Doing a 2 for 1? 

You could corner your CI... question what particular scenario the CI is referring.



PTupdate.com -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 7:23:35 AM)

Don't forget about the two Aussie studies using it on CTS with very good results. 

Can't say I ever did both of those treatments at the same time, in my entire 17 year career.  Could not even begin to rationalize as to the benefits of both.

And SJ, don't get this poor girl into trouble with her CI, you trouble maker[;)]



Shill -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 8:09:20 AM)

Make waves SJ?  Is that an ultrasound pun? 

One additional benefit to doing this is having the ability to stimulate a muscle with a traveling sound head, and make it easier to find the motor point.  (Provided you have a huge dispersive).  Muscle reeducation/tactile stimulation is about the only other potential benefit I can see.  And, if you can get a chance to do this, try it on yourself Nef, as it will be a learning experience.  Also, try it on your CI too, or vice versa.  I doubt this ever gets done anymore, but it is a neat way to get some isolated muscle firing without the hassle of electrodes.



kamryn -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 8:36:11 AM)

Hi - the Jan-Feb 08 edition of the Spine Journal has 20+ papers on LBP interventions - one is on modalities Nef.  For the time being, it is free full text. 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL&_tockey=%23TOC%236632%232008%23999919998%23677616%23FLA%23&_cdi=6632&_pubType=J&_auth=y&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2405b6e5db69116184262c7d8c0e56ea



SJBird55 -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 11:06:54 AM)

Moi?  A troublemaker??  HeHe
Maybe the CI was asking a trick question?!?  Nef should answer it truthfully.  I'm betting answering truthfully will make waves though.

Here are the "serious" advantages:

Advantage #1:  There is less boredom moving the soundhead and watching motor contractions.
Advantage #2:  You definitely know that you remembered to turn on the electrical stimulation portion.
Advantage #3:  The patient will definitely talk about the experience whether the experience is a good experience or a poor experience.
Advantage #4:  Even the men can be successful in performing this doing 2 things at once intervention!!!  LMAO



jesspt -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 2:09:08 PM)

SJ -
Like I don't get that enough at home from my wife!



SJBird55 -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 8:02:44 PM)

Jess... this can be like your home away from home.  [:)]  Hope you come back... LOL



TexasOrtho -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 8:10:40 PM)

Maybe using the two modalities together will cancel each other out and the patient will get better.  Just kidding.  Never used them and don't see the reason to start now.  I haven't read Kamryn's link yet but I'll need to see if there is literature supporting it's use.



Nef -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 9:48:01 PM)

Thank you all.  I think my CI gives me homework when I ask a question and he is interested himself in the answer.  I asked the other therapist who is there today and he says the other CI is the only one he ever saw do the combo.

And I'm not a little girl.



ginger -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 9:54:20 PM)

Nef, as a group we are all as warm and fuzzy as my cat nuk nuk. It is just that the tender moments of early  post grad uncertainty have receeded into the dim past for many of us. As much as  I am keen for you to enjoy the process of gaining experiences , you will , in time , discover that many of the methods and ideas that were taught to you, are not worthy of the time you have spent learning them. Don't be troubled by this.  There is no instant way to aquire experience. I hope you have fun and remain alert to the possibilities of further learning.  In many ways it seems true that most of the best stuff , must wait till after graduation , to be absorbed and experienced. This often leads to therapists having epiphanies that alter perspective on problem solving. I hope this will be true for you in relation to the use of electrotherapies, wether used singly , two at a time ,or lined up in the basement with dust covers on ., ( ideal ).



SJBird55 -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 13, 2008 9:58:52 PM)

Nef... Duffy is always hoping there is a new female interacting on the site.  Poor guy is stuck with the same old, same old.  We love him though.



jlharris -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 14, 2008 11:17:43 AM)

Speaking of which...

APTA demographics show M:F ratio in US to be 36% vs. 64%; but contributors on this forum (and EIM, blogs, etc) seem to be 9:1.  I find this very interesting (and truthfully why I think our profession stuggles as MOST of our profession treats it as a "job" and not a "profession").

Sorry, off topic.



TexasOrtho -> RE: Combined Electrical Stimulation with Ultrasound (May 14, 2008 11:57:37 AM)

That's why SJ and other ladies on this forum are awesome.  I too think we've got a bad case of apathetosis in our profession. 



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