|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login | |
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 11, 2008 9:39:54 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AllenB I'm on my last rotation and three clinicians (2 PTs and 1 PTA) at the facility are certified and "all about" this ASTYM stuff. As mentioned above, MDs do send referrals specifically requesting ASTYM. What would you do in the following situation? You're a PT, WITHOUT ASTYM certification, and you get a referral requesting ASTYM specifically. I completely agree with the comments above concerning other methods to achieve the same result. So ...... -Do you use your own method (other manual techniques) to treat the patient and more or less ignore the instructions from the MD? -Contact the MD (let's assume it's not one you know very well) explaining that you are not certified with ASTYM but you think you can treat the pt appropriately ... bla, bla, bla. -Run out and get certified immediately because you clearly are a poor PT without this certification and should not treat another pt before doing so (BTW - My current CI seriously might choose this answer) Thanks. Physical Therapists ARE the experts in NMSK evaluation. As SJ said....when a patient is referred to the Physical therapist, the physician is asking for your expert opinion. The ASTYM is a recommendation. Evaluate the patient...design an evidence based treatment plan...in the report, indicate your clinical impression...and send it to the Physician. Or, you could simply call them and educate them about the typical uses of ASTYM and how the tiny instruments are NOT required and certainly NOT evidence based. And at every turn possible...drop hints about this article: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/6/32
< Message edited by proud -- April 11, 2008 9:45:15 PM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 8:34:16 AM
|
|
|
PTupdate.com
Posts: 1433
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
|
These products are tools, and tools can help a person do their job easier, sometimes better, and sometimes safer. I use my thumbs and fingers, but the huge volume is starting to kill me, and I may consider such products in the near future. I am not sure why PT's often have issues when someone "makes money" for anything they do.....nobody on this forum is working for free. These companies have come up with a tool and an education series that can help a PT do their job better. Nobody is putting a gun to our heads to take the course and buy the product. As proud notes, most PT's don't even know that "osis" occurs, let alone the differences between "osis" and "isis". So, this company has invested the time and energy to educate regarding current literature and these conditions, and also products designed to help the PT provide the treatment. And, God forbid they do this and expect, yikes, a profit! Capitalist bastards!!! Could a motivated PT with a lot of time on his/her hands spend days scouring the literature (after paying a fortune for OVID access to actually get the literature in its entirety) learn the basis for "osis" and "itis", and then in their well stocked woodshop and metal shop create their own tools to help perform the job? Sure. Will their clocks get cleaned if something happens in the clinic and they get dragged to court with their homemade tools? You bet. Every day we all use tools to make our lives easier....the car we drive, the mouse we use on the computer, the belt that holds our pants up. We all paid for these, someone made a profit, and nobody cared. But, when someone does this in the healthcare arena, people flip a nut.
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist www.PTupdate.com
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 9:09:39 AM
|
|
|
dscouras
Posts: 27
Joined: January 27, 2007
Status: offline
|
I dont think that people necessarily flip a nut over making a profit. I don't care if someone makes a million dollars with some idea, I think what I was trying to say that got misinterpreted was that these are gimmicks and people love gimmicks! As for jimmying something up in the woodshed, sure but why not use something allready available in the kitchen. If my plantar fasc was treated by this new technology and resolved when all else failed it leads to instant credibilty for the new system/technique etc. Its just that we do not all have to jump on board as lemmings and subscribe to the new way of doing things. Knowledge is still the best tool we have to treat all conditions. And I think we all agree with this. Now here's another one.. .I just thaught of. Has anyone used a device called the Inter-X. A hand held device that emits an electrical signal through the tissue and reveals a number that stands for impedance of tissue. The higher the value on a general area the more irritable the area is and as such treatable. I have used (loaned) it trying to discredit the device however some clients have reported awesome results with it. I have no idea why this works so well for pain aside from calming down an irritable muscle, joint...
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 9:29:30 AM
|
|
|
TexasOrtho
Posts: 423
Joined: December 22, 2007
Status: offline
|
I don't judge people for using tools either. If it helps you and you aren't misleading your patients, I don't see the big deal. Believe me, I'm all about making money as long as it doesn't breach the ethics my personal or professional standards. I would rather PT's spend hard earned money on learning vs tools, but that's just me. I already know the difference between "itis" and "osis". I can't stand the chiropractic profession as a whole strictly on the basis of their deception (whether out of ignorance or otherwise) of the public. I'm not trying to say "my reason for disdain is better than yours", but I try to avoid saying something is bad or good based on it's association with chiropractors. The chiros do SOME good, and bashing them for the sake of bashing makes us look unprofessional. Although, I do understand where the anger comes from. I think we should discuss something like this ASTYM on the merits of risk, benefit, and cost just like anything else. All the other stuff is superfluous and detracts from a productive debate. For me, the cost does not justify the benefit. Ergo I will stick to what I do...what say you?
< Message edited by TexasOrtho -- April 12, 2008 9:32:07 AM >
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak) Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 10:52:12 AM
|
|
|
TC PT
Posts: 35
Joined: January 5, 2007
Status: offline
|
It's nice to see some more pragmatic opinions posted on this topic. Although John and Rod differ in their opinions I find their responses both mature and open minded. Thanks for adding positively to this discussion guys. John, you're spot on in regard to the ASTYM tools. I'd recommend either doing the ASTYM thing or taking the initiative to fabricate (or improvise) your own tools. Save those thumbs man...I've had much less CMC problems since switching to these tools.
< Message edited by TC PT -- April 12, 2008 10:54:43 AM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 12:31:51 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TexasOrtho I don't judge people for using tools either. If it helps you and you aren't misleading your patients, I don't see the big deal. Believe me, I'm all about making money as long as it doesn't breach the ethics my personal or professional standards. I would rather PT's spend hard earned money on learning vs tools, but that's just me. I already know the difference between "itis" and "osis". I can't stand the chiropractic profession as a whole strictly on the basis of their deception (whether out of ignorance or otherwise) of the public. I'm not trying to say "my reason for disdain is better than yours", but I try to avoid saying something is bad or good based on it's association with chiropractors. The chiros do SOME good, and bashing them for the sake of bashing makes us look unprofessional. Although, I do understand where the anger comes from. I think we should discuss something like this ASTYM on the merits of risk, benefit, and cost just like anything else. All the other stuff is superfluous and detracts from a productive debate. For me, the cost does not justify the benefit. Ergo I will stick to what I do...what say you? Well stated Rod. Really well. John, I have no problems with people making money when it is done so with merit. I'm willing to bet John Childs has done well on the back of his research. Have you -visited- any of these tiny tool web sites John? Things "vibrate"....things "guide" you. John....it's a gimmick. The fact that the tiny tools are utilized in a format consistent with what is known( osis versus otis)....does not make the outlandish certification valid. No good research. wackey claims. It equals what we have seen in the past from a really screwy chiro professsion. In other words taking a relativly sound modality( manipulation) and turning into something it is most definetly is not.... As to your reference to the legal system and fabricating your own tools. How do you think a judge is going to react if you injure someone with these specialized tools? They would ask...." Why were you jabbing your client with that tool...." Your only response would be because someone told you it worked. That's it. No research. Your clock would get cleaned anyway. Also TC, because someone's thoughts on a topic seem more consistent with yours does not make it "mature and open minded". I'd be willing to bet a few Chiropractors use that line when defending the subluxation theory. Here's the ticket. My views are very mature....the tiny instruments have no research to back it up whatsoever. And I'll bet in a well done RCT....we will see no benefit with the tiny instruments compared to traditional protocol in treating an appopriately subgrouped patient population. As to your suggestion that you have "witnessed" it work....I would hope you see the similiarities there with the subluxation based chiropractor. Often what we see and what is actual are two different things. That's why we have the scientific method don't ya know.... But if you want to spend thousands of dollars to save your thumbs that makes some sense I guess. but don't try to convince me that the "vibrating" and "guiding" is valid. Sorry.
< Message edited by proud -- April 12, 2008 12:54:40 PM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 1:25:03 PM
|
|
|
SJBird55
Posts: 2292
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
Hold on proud... ASTYM (or old acronym ASTM) does have some research. Their site isn't all testimonials. http://astym.com/upload/pdf/ASTYM%20Article%20Summaries.pdf Be patient... their research starts with rats and then moves into clinical stuff - mainly case studies, but hey, that is admirable. They do have one clinical trial of a ASTYM vs traditonal approach. One has to start somewhere. It takes a lot of time with research and clinical trials. In my opinion, they do have a good beginning foundation. The tough question: Wilson JK was all over it - does Wilson JK have a conflict of interest? Where is the funding coming from? The other 2 names that occurred at a reasonable frequency were Sevier TL and Helfst RH. There is also an outcome report: http://astym.com/upload/pdf/ASTYM%20Outcome%20Reports.pdf They also have a variety of types of publications: http://astym.com/professionals/research.asp#publications Is it the tool or the philosophy behind the tool? There are so many philosophies out there of an "it works" explanation. This company is providing much more than "it works." In fact, my perception is that the company is doing its best to not be a cheesy, gimmicky company. They "get" it. If some idea is new or somewhat new, it can't be expected to have all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Can anyone argue with this type of presentation to potential patients? http://astym.com/professionals/research.asp#publications They aren't even being gimmicky to patients! Their list of "where does it hurt" is narrow to the type of areas ASTYM could be beneficial! This company really did do it right. Only the very bottom of this page is questionable: http://astym.com/patients/treatment.asp There is no proof from any study that suggests that the results would only occur with a certified ASTYM therapist. That last statement is very wrong, their research hasn't addressed that component yet. A big turnoff and mistake on that company's part is having a quote from Joe Kleinkort. The mistake is my own personal bias; I don't agree with half the crap he's written. I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, proud. ASTYM is exactly the type of company that our industry needs. They've started a great foundation and hopefully they will continue to build the research supporting their product.
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 1:35:24 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SJBird55 Hold on proud... ASTYM (or old acronym ASTM) does have some research. Their site isn't all testimonials. http://astym.com/upload/pdf/ASTYM%20Article%20Summaries.pdf Be patient... their research starts with rats and then moves into clinical stuff - mainly case studies, but hey, that is admirable. They do have one clinical trial of a ASTYM vs traditonal approach. One has to start somewhere. It takes a lot of time with research and clinical trials. In my opinion, they do have a good beginning foundation. The tough question: Wilson JK was all over it - does Wilson JK have a conflict of interest? Where is the funding coming from? The other 2 names that occurred at a reasonable frequency were Sevier TL and Helfst RH. There is also an outcome report: http://astym.com/upload/pdf/ASTYM%20Outcome%20Reports.pdf They also have a variety of types of publications: http://astym.com/professionals/research.asp#publications Is it the tool or the philosophy behind the tool? There are so many philosophies out there of an "it works" explanation. This company is providing much more than "it works." In fact, my perception is that the company is doing its best to not be a cheesy, gimmicky company. They "get" it. If some idea is new or somewhat new, it can't be expected to have all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Can anyone argue with this type of presentation to potential patients? http://astym.com/professionals/research.asp#publications They aren't even being gimmicky to patients! Their list of "where does it hurt" is narrow to the type of areas ASTYM could be beneficial! This company really did do it right. Only the very bottom of this page is questionable: http://astym.com/patients/treatment.asp There is no proof from any study that suggests that the results would only occur with a certified ASTYM therapist. That last statement is very wrong, their research hasn't addressed that component yet. A big turnoff and mistake on that company's part is having a quote from Joe Kleinkort. The mistake is my own personal bias; I don't agree with half the crap he's written. I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, proud. ASTYM is exactly the type of company that our industry needs. They've started a great foundation and hopefully they will continue to build the research supporting their product. What are you disagreeing with exactly? As stated, I believe the science behind the technique has some solid foundation. I stated that I'd be willing to bet in comparison to appropriate traditional treatment...in an appropriately subgrouped population, we would see no difference. Sure applying a sound rationale treatment to a patient is going to have nice outcomes. I stated I have a problem with the certification process. The gimmick is that the certification is based on the use of "tiny instruments". I'd be willing to bet that if PT's attended a lecture by someone like Khan...and provided with some scientifically grounded protocols, their outcomes would suddenly improve as well. For about $250....
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 1:42:00 PM
|
|
|
TC PT
Posts: 35
Joined: January 5, 2007
Status: offline
|
proud, If you look back at my original post in this thread, you'll see that your thoughts are cosistent with mine. The ASTYM course/certification is overpriced. The 'tiny tools' are overpriced. Although, as I mentioned, my thumbs are certainly better off since I began the tool use. I have no knowledge of the 'guiding' or 'vibrating' to which you're referring. I did mention earlier the way the tools can allow more feedback about the soft tissues than hands alone....
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 1:59:16 PM
|
|
|
TC PT
Posts: 35
Joined: January 5, 2007
Status: offline
|
SJBird, Nice post. Yes they are trying. And, yes it does take time. I am helping in a study related to ASTYM (not in affiliation with Performance Dynamics) and it's been ongoing for over a year now, and still not finished.
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 2:20:54 PM
|
|
|
PTupdate.com
Posts: 1433
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
|
Well, I just spent a fair amount of time reading over all the info on the ASTYM site, get back here and find SJ beat me to the punch, worded better than I would have as well. And are their courses and tools really overpriced? They are the ones that developed the product, probably patented the designs (a long and expensive process), market the material, etc. Has anybody here ever tried to create, patent, and market a medical product? If so, you may not be quick to comment on the costs, as you would realize the expenses involved.....legal, protective, development, and marketing. Hell, my Acura was overpriced.......I still wanted it and was willing to pay for it. proud: I do find it interesting how you are very critical about some issues...here and on the thread involving Wikpedia, where you state "Professionals are meant to maintain a standard...a high standard". Yet, on the thread regarding the woman with chronic adductor pain, you conclude to rwillcott that the person sounds like she has psycho-social issues, is looking for a magician, and that he should tell her the "straight facts". You don't post your credentials, but even if you do have a degree in abnormal psychology (and I bet you don't)......someone with a high standard most likely would not make such a recommendation and conclusion after reading a few paragraphs on someones thread.
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist www.PTupdate.com
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 3:37:00 PM
|
|
|
SJBird55
Posts: 2292
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
proud - I disagree with: quote:
John....it's a gimmick. The fact that the tiny tools are utilized in a format consistent with what is known( osis versus otis)....does not make the outlandish certification valid. No good research. wackey claims. It equals what we have seen in the past from a really screwy chiro professsion. In other words taking a relativly sound modality( manipulation) and turning into something it is most definetly is not.... My perception was that you are classifying ASTYM as being a whack-job of a company and basically scamming its consumers (us). I respectfully disagree. Unlike many other companies out there, I see this one as definitely trying. Trying, even if failing, gets points in my book. I would assume that the cost of those "tiny instruments" is low. I would assume that they created the certification process to ensure anyone who used the "tiny instruments" would be safe. I believe this company has a business model not based on the "tiny instruments" but based on the education behind the use of the instruments. This company is catering to a population (us) focused on acquiring the alphabet soup and valuing the alphabet soup. Smart company - definitely knows its target population. I'm not sure how this company will respond to the change in tide where less alphabet soup is being advocated, but for the past and for now, excellent marketing strategy. Elevate your customer and keep your customers unique and desirable. Obviously this company hasn't reached every single licensed therapist because being ASTYM certified isn't the norm, but still, a good marketing strategy was implemented. Kudos for that. AND the company does share outcomes (unknown who did them) and literature in peer-reviewed journals. TC PT Keep on keepin' with the research. It does take time - a lot of time. After all the time and a beautiful paper ready for submission, there are no guarantees it will be accepted. You never know until it's submitted. Edit: He He, yeah, Duffy, that's cause you're S-L-O-W. It takes quick reading, a fast brain and flyin' fingers to beat me!
< Message edited by SJBird55 -- April 12, 2008 3:40:56 PM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 3:39:45 PM
|
|
|
TC PT
Posts: 35
Joined: January 5, 2007
Status: offline
|
My opinion has always been that the cert. and tools are overpriced. There is also a yearly fee to belong to the network. I am open to the notion it may not be as overpriced as I thought, when I consider what they offer in return. They supply excellent support...you have questions they are accessible and eager to help. They also assist in marketing and offer various templates for informing physicians about the treatment, etc. . They are also focused on trying to provide the best evidence possible. Edit to add: the outcomes are provided by the therapists in the network. Not all cases get reported....I certainly don't have time in my day for another piece of documentation, but I try to do what I can.
< Message edited by TC PT -- April 12, 2008 3:47:03 PM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 4:08:25 PM
|
|
|
jlharris
Posts: 468
Joined: April 12, 2006
From: Nebraska
Status: offline
|
quote:
I would assume that they created the certification process to ensure anyone who used the "tiny instruments" would be safe. LOL, sorry SJ, I almost ALWAYS agree with you. But this is a stretch. I'm sure soft tissue manipulation needs as much training to be "safe" (outside what we already have recieved) as spinal manipulation does. The "certification" part is almost certainly a marketing and profit gimmick. What it gets is MD's confusing this "certification" for some magic knowlegde that a PT MUST HAVE in order to successfully treat their pt's. We already see it with CST, MFR, PRI, etc. There is not going to be education going towards the medical profession regarding -itis vs. -osis. Only ASTYM vs. not have the "certification". Again, it's worth a look d/t the companies attempt at backing it up with research, but ther certification is not to make you and I "safe" using a butter knife to do STM.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT My PT Blog
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 4:52:08 PM
|
|
|
SJBird55
Posts: 2292
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
Sorry, Jason - I was speaking from the company's perspective - that rationale might tie in with a need for a certification process. They are most definitely selling the education/certification process. The plastic looking thing doesn't look like it would be highly expensive to manufacture. ASTYM created a business model that included "certification." That kind of crap has been a part of our industry for years - I can't blame them for doing what they needed to do. Is it right or wrong? I honestly don't know. I do know that they are not full of just testimonials which is refreshing. If they really wanted to test the value, they would need to look at ASTYM certified using ASTYM products vs ASTYM un-certified using ASTYM products vs ASTYM un-certified using whatever product vs ASTYM un-certified using manual only for same subgroup of patients. That would answer the requirement for certification with their products. Being certified in anything assists with marketing strategies - it can set a clinician apart. Is that right or wrong? My personal preference is a chain saw (nothing like something sharp combined with speed and power AND noise). A bit messy, but no more -osis pain! LOL Actually, seems as though whenever I mention that option, patients magically improve. LMAO TC PT, your input regarding outcomes IS a problem. I'd now question cherry picking the outcomes...
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 7:20:09 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
And are their courses and tools really overpriced? They are the ones that developed the product, probably patented the designs (a long and expensive process), market the material, etc. Has anybody here ever tried to create, patent, and market a medical product? If so, you may not be quick to comment on the costs, as you would realize the expenses involved.....legal, protective, development, and marketing. Let me start by saying that I have been reading here for quite some time. And John, I always read what you have to say. I respect your thoughts always. Having stated that....a patent on a product and the cost associated has no bearing on this conversation now does it? quote:
proud: I do find it interesting how you are very critical about some issues...here and on the thread involving Wikpedia, where you state "Professionals are meant to maintain a standard...a high standard". Well let me just say that we have far too many non critical PT's out there. Result: low pay/often compared to massueurs with far less training/and a public who has no idea what we do. You bet I'm critical. quote:
You don't post your credentials, but even if you do have a degree in abnormal psychology (and I bet you don't) Actually....I do. quote:
someone with a high standard most likely would not make such a recommendation and conclusion after reading a few paragraphs on someones thread. Isn't that what we all do on here John? I made no conclusion. I simply reacted to what Rwillcott said regarding the "affect" of this individual. Plus all that I know and have read about persistent pain. But no. I don't expect rwillcott to then conclude that I am correct. In fact, I stated that a good PT should spend the time to rule out the patho-anatomical explainations. WHY? becuase there are so many bad PT's out there. Who knows what this lady had done to her? Perhaps she was poked with tiny instruments....
< Message edited by proud -- April 12, 2008 7:25:24 PM >
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 7:31:39 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: jlharris quote:
I would assume that they created the certification process to ensure anyone who used the "tiny instruments" would be safe. LOL, sorry SJ, I almost ALWAYS agree with you. But this is a stretch. I'm sure soft tissue manipulation needs as much training to be "safe" (outside what we already have recieved) as spinal manipulation does. The "certification" part is almost certainly a marketing and profit gimmick. What it gets is MD's confusing this "certification" for some magic knowlegde that a PT MUST HAVE in order to successfully treat their pt's. We already see it with CST, MFR, PRI, etc. There is not going to be education going towards the medical profession regarding -itis vs. -osis. Only ASTYM vs. not have the "certification". Again, it's worth a look d/t the companies attempt at backing it up with research, but ther certification is not to make you and I "safe" using a butter knife to do STM. Classic. And true. Hey SJ. I ask this because I feel that my practice patterns seem to resemble yours a fair bit. Do you feel the certification process is required? And do you feel the tiny instruments are required to get the result? Or is it that the education provided about tissue pathology is the correct information which in turn gets PT's doing the right type of treatment( regardless of the butter knife)?
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 9:39:52 PM
|
|
|
SJBird55
Posts: 2292
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
A certification process... proud, you're kind of somewhat cornering me on that question, aren't you? In some cases, a certification process is required because the procedures will and do change - for example cardiopulmonary resuscitation. Often times a certification process is supposed to ensure the competency of the individual in a particular method or technique. For that particular situation, generally it means that a particular amount of specific knowledge is present. In some cases, yes, it is a good thing to be certified, especially if there is a required renewal procedure also in place. In some cases, certification potentially decreases complacency. The question really should be, "does certification equate to increased effectiveness and efficiency?" Maybe it does; maybe it doesn't. Not all certified therapists (for example board certified in orthopaedics) are "experts." In general, I have mixed feelings about any certification process. I see both sides of the issue. Yeah, a wishy washy answer for a vague question. Of course the instruments are not required to get the results. Physical therapists have survived for years without them. The question really should be, "what are the positive and negative variables associated with using the instruments?" If the negative variables outweigh the positive variables, then the instruments might not be quite as important to the individual clinician. When it comes to products, only the buyer knows her needs. Number 3 is probably a large aspect and might even be the main factor. I don't know though. To answer that question would take randomizing the results of certified individuals using ASTYM products and certified individuals that don't use the ASTYM products. Ha Ha, proud... since you happen to have something in abnormal psychology - you can PM me with who you would vote as being the most psychologically abnormal individual that posts here! LOL Actually, nah, better not. That kind of stuff is on a need to know basis and I really don't need to know.
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 12, 2008 11:39:14 PM
|
|
|
proud
Posts: 875
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
A certification process... proud, you're kind of somewhat cornering me on that question, aren't you? In some cases, a certification process is required because the procedures will and do change - for example cardiopulmonary resuscitation. Well yes. I believe in certification processes. But when you are talking CPR, orthopeadic surgery etc etc.....it's different. Do I think someone needs to be certified to use non evidence based butter knives? Nope. Do I think all PT's should know the latest literature on tissue repair and pathology. Yes. So the course seems wise. The butter knives....not so much... quote:
Ha Ha, proud... since you happen to have something in abnormal psychology - you can PM me with who you would vote as being the most psychologically abnormal individual that posts here! LOL Actually, nah, better not. That kind of stuff is on a need to know basis and I really don't need to know. Well, I can tell you of a certain site that has some peculiar participants...Some simply bizzare people over there...
|
|
|
|
RE: Talk to me about ASTYM - April 15, 2008 4:16:53 PM
|
|
|
JoshPT
Posts: 4
Joined: February 4, 2007
Status: offline
|
Proud stated. " I'd be willing to bet that if an RCT was completed in which the tiny instruments were compared against traditional manual therapy with the same patient population....the results would be the same" Wilson JK, Sevier TL, Helfst RH, Honing EW, Thomann AL. Comparison of rehabilitation methods in the treatment of patellar tendinitis. Journal of Sports Rehabilitation. 2000; 15(1):9- 14. Inclusion criteria: Physician-diagnosed patellar tendinitis as the major diagnosis; however, the subject could have had other co-existing conditions. Exclusion criteria: Open lesions in the area of treatment, anticoagulant therapy such as warfarin (coumadin) or heparin, known coagulation disorders, any previous knee surgery or internal knee pathology. Knee x-rays taken at three views were used to exclude any bony abnormality. Methods: Of the 38 subjects that began the study, 18 were dropped due to lack of compliance with the rehabilitation protocol or did not return for physician follow-up. The remaining 20 (12 men and 8 women) had been randomized to either traditional treatment or ASTM treatment. The traditional treatment group performed stationary bicycling, stretching protocol, five minutes of cross friction on the patellar tendon, other modalities per the supervising therapist, therapeutic exercises and cryotherapy three times per week for four weeks (twelve total treatments). The ASTM treatment group was seen twice a week for four weeks (eight total treatments). Their treatment regimen involved the same stretching and exercise protocol but they received ASTM treatment to the extensor mechanism of the knee in place of the cross friction massage and other modalities. Resolution criteria: No swelling, no pain upon palpation, and the ability to do the following with minimal pain (less than 3 on scale of 0 to10): six single leg hops, squat to thigh parallel, and eccentric load step down (step down with unaffected leg off of stepping stool). Outcome: At the end of the sixth week, 100% (10/10) of ASTM treatment and 60% (6/10) of the traditional group had resolved. The unresolved subjects were crossed over to the ASTM protocol for additional therapy and testing. Upon completion of additional treatment, 50% (2/4) of the crossover traditional to ASTM treatment resolved. The clinical outcomes of the group receiving this ASTM treatment indicated a statistically significant (P < 0.05) percentage of improvement in subjective pain and functional impairment ratings. Conclusion: The ASTM treatment appears to be a viable intervention for patellar tendinitis. So how much did we bet? All kidding aside, as mentioned above this is one of the few companies that do have research and are still working on research to show their treatment works. This is the only clinical trial so far but it is a start. There are several histology studies and some case reports also posted.
|
|
|
|
New Messages |
No New Messages |
Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
Locked w/ New Messages |
Locked w/o New Messages |
|
Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
0.203
|