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Re: Things we have to get over
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 2:47:00 PM
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JCOY
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Mysterious? Now THAT is "laughable"!!! :) :)
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 2:49:00 PM
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3.5fig
Posts: 97
Joined: July 13, 2005
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Apology accepted.
Back to the subject at hand....I think that viscero-somatic and somato-visceral reflexes are not mysterious, but are not well understood. Lets stay on subject...the post about the hypertension study was done by the University of Chicago. I fail to see how that is a push by Chiropractors...but I do agree that there are Chiropractors that do push manipulations into a mysterious phenomenon...we can agree to that. However, as I have said before there are affects of spinal manipulation that are not fully known and deserve research..
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 3:57:00 PM
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nari
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From: Australia
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If manipulation results in relief of pain, asthmatic conditions, or even hypertension through anecdotal reports, then something is happening. We as yet do not know what that specifically is. In other words, we are uncertain.
PTs or chiros who are certain about anything in our fields of therapy are just kiddin' themselves and their patients.
The greatest progress is made by those who are quite uncertain about certainty and proof. No-one in a true scientific field is certain about anything; which is why research exists.
Nari
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 4:09:00 PM
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JCOY
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Excellent post Nari-
It appears, evidenced by PT posts here, that PT has it's own "straight vs mixer" divide.
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 4:12:00 PM
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proud
Posts: 941
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Nari,
Well stated. And I accept the counterpoint.
Certain was a poor choice of words. I meant it in a ..."I will be very suprised" manner. And I did say >quite< certain....not absolutely certain.
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 4:41:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
Joined: July 25, 2006
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I can accept that manips can help with asthma through breath efficacy but this is still MSK we are talking about... hypertension .. i am not so sure about yet there are conflicting resulsts...
Chiropractics has been around for many decades now and the profession has not shown any real good evidence that thier treatments can make improvements in conditions such as cancer, growing pains, ADHD, immune system, bed wetting, deafness, ect.. yet they make claims that it does.. surely after so many years they could have come up with some good evidence...if something is really happening....as health care providers ..shouldnt we follow science...
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 5:44:00 PM
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OAK
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Joined: September 1, 2003
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My biggest complaint is that alot of chiropractors abuse manipulations. They claim manipulations prevent injury and as well use scare tactics to keep their patients returning. This creates an unnecessary dependance and in that respect the entire profession does more harm than good.
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 7:32:00 PM
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3.5fig
Posts: 97
Joined: July 13, 2005
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OAK,
I agree with much of what you say. Chiropractors that use scare tactics and make nutty claims are the bane of my existence. Regarding manipulations preventing injury, I have to state that I believe that there is some merit to that concept. I am thinking about treating athletes. Although I have no proof whatsoever...the anecdotal evidence is there that there is something to manipulation preventing athletic injuries. I think of Scott Spencer D.C. who is Lance Armstrong's treating Doc when he is performing. I tend to think about the body biomechanically and if you think about how an athlete has to perform with proper biomechanical function, then having a joint perform properly it is not a hard stretch to see how manipulation can prevent injury. Heck, joint mobilization can do the same thing as well. If a joint is restricted in its motion then a muscle cannot function to its full capacity and the same goes for when a muscle is restricted, a joint cannot function to its full capacity. Mind you this is not "scientifically" proven, but if you think about it...it makes sense doesn't it?
Nari,
You and I see eye to eye on this.
JCOY,
I think you have a point there. I never thought about it that way, but your post reminds me of when I went to a Gary Gray seminar. He is a PT and much of what he says about the body and how it works sure reminds me of Chiropractic philosophy.
Ok...tomorrow I leave for a 2 week vacation to Ireland. Maybe I can check in over there. If not I will miss the back and forth here. I do have a lot respect for this site and enjoy the lively debate. See you all after many a Guinness. Cheers
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 12, 2007 8:12:00 PM
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james097
Posts: 178
Joined: January 27, 2005
From: West Vancouver BC
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fig,
Eirinn go Brach and not too much Liffey water.
Jim McGregor
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Re: Things we have to get over - June 13, 2007 4:53:00 AM
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orthotherapist
Posts: 217
Joined: February 6, 2007
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Nari - well stated.
Heck if Christopher Columbus was certain that the world was flat (like most europeans of his time) where would we be?
Only by having people see a possible link, making a hypothesis and then testing it will our professions be able to prosper in the future.
Given the computer age and patients savvy healthcare "shopping" they are demanding answers and asking "why" they should do something versus just following their healthcare providers advice. Those that can provide "evidence" to back up their treatments will be in a position to move forward
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