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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 14, 2006 2:53:00 AM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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FYI, I see that I have 3 new private messages, but when I click on the link, there is an error. After the last time I recieved the error, it is no longer saying I have new messages.
If you need to get a hold of me, you can do so at touchiba at hotmail.com
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 3:41:00 AM
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Jeep
Posts: 353
Joined: March 28, 2003
From: USA
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Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT ---Posts:
[QUOTE] Jeep,
You are correct. Higher Learning institutions in the US are accredited by the Higher Learning Commision, and in the Case of NE, the NCA region. This accreditation is for the "school" itself and not so much particular program. For example, University of Nebraska Lincoln is accredited by the NCA as a whole.
Specific programs, or professional programs then have (usually) another level of accreditation. In the case for PT it is CAPTE and DC it is CCE.
So my claim that DC's have an un-independent accrediation process was indeed erroneous. I apologize for my ignorance. [/QUOTE]Jason, Thank-you for your very gracious apology---Much appreciated!
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 4:36:00 AM
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Lehmkuhler
Posts: 69
Joined: December 14, 2005
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proud;
See Harris' post. You don't want to bite the hand that feeds you...
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 5:35:00 AM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
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Lehmkukler,
I am not sure what that means. But if it makes you feel better...
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 5:42:00 AM
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Lehmkuhler
Posts: 69
Joined: December 14, 2005
Status: offline
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proud;
OK, I'll paint the picture. MD's provide the vast majority of PT patients. MD's don't like it when DPT's use the term Dr so MD's withold referrals. DPT's business suffers.
Or, just don't use the Dr title to keep the MD's happy and sending patients...
Pretty simple really.
DC's don't rely much on MD's (there are exceptions) and therefore don't worry too much about what they do or don't like.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 6:02:00 AM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
Joined: July 25, 2006
Status: offline
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Lehmukler posts:
>>>OK, I'll paint the picture. MD's provide the vast majority of PT patients. MD's don't like it when DPT's use the term Dr so MD's withold referrals. DPT's business suffers.
Or, just don't use the Dr title to keep the MD's happy and sending patients...
Pretty simple really.
DC's don't rely much on MD's (there are exceptions) and therefore don't worry too much about what they do or don't like. <<<<<<
PTs have complete direct access too so they dont necessarily have to rely on MDs referrals either..but they get them anyways...I dont remember proud saying anythihg about going around using DR. title .. so whats your point...
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 6:10:00 AM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Lehmkuhler,
Direct access in Canada. And coming to a theater near you.
And the very fact that you percieve my advice to exercise caution with the "dr" title as something sinister... is a shame.
In my opinion, if you are legally entitled to claim the "dr" title( DC, DPT), then use it in correspondence with other healthcare providers. Are you legally able to use the title when communicating to patients? Of course, but ask yourself if the public is making appropriate distinctions. What impact does that have on a patients health care choice?
I know you want to believe my intentions are not for patient advocacy, but you would be wrong. And certainly the fact that you make light of and mock my position, is a sad commentary on where your intentions are. I am entitled to an opinion and find your response of "keeping the MD's happy" rather offensive.
I am not sure, however I am certain the responsible APTA has a position on this? Perhaps a current US DPT could let us know.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 6:42:00 AM
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Lehmkuhler
Posts: 69
Joined: December 14, 2005
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proud;
It wasn't meant to be offensive, rather common sense. The person responsible for your income is a person you want to keep happy. If not using the Dr. title would keep me in a steady flow of new patients, you can call me Bob for all I care...
Onstudent;
Re-read page 2 if you are missing the part about the Dr. title.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 6:48:00 AM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
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>>>>The person responsible for your income is a person you want to keep happy.>>>>
Two things:
1. How is this not offensive and indicative of how you view healthcare professionals? "keeping each other happy". Where is the patient in that equation? I am sure any MD reading along would also take offense.
2. Like I said, Canada has direct access, and this will be the case in the US as well.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 15, 2006 7:49:00 AM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1709
Joined: April 24, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
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[QUOTE]The person responsible for your income is a person you want to keep happy.[/QUOTE]I think there is truth to this and it is one of the reasons why teaming up with chiropractors prior to obtaining the autonomy we desire is a bad idea.
Wait until we're not dependent upon someone else, except our patients, for our incomes--then team up with whomever you want.
_____________________________
[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - December 20, 2006 9:32:00 AM
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resuccess
Posts: 8
Joined: November 29, 2006
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I would like to personally thank you for taking the time to post this pertinent information. We layman can learn and be inspired by your knowledge and willingness to share your expertise.
Thank you again,
http://www.thebusinesssuccessgroup.com
_____________________________
[U]Justin Williams [/U]
Business Consultant
& Success Coaching Specialist
Looking For Funding For Your Small Business?
We Can Help
[URL=http://www.thebusinesssuccessgroup.com/Government-Funding.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 8, 2007 6:49:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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What a quality thread....hard to believe I stopped reading and posting here.
Glad I read this before I came back...bye....
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 8, 2007 12:14:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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how is the knee progressing jason?
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 8, 2007 12:14:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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oops i think that was alex who had the knee done
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 8, 2007 6:18:00 PM
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docj04
Posts: 15
Joined: January 11, 2006
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I can't help but add my thoughts on this...
I can not speak for every Chiro program vs. every PT or DPT program out there, but I can say w/out even remote reservation that the curriculum that I went through at my chiro school compared to that of my fiances MPT curriculum was by far and away MUCH more detailed in depth and breadth in practically every aspect. Sure, I will admit that her school provided some more education in specific rehab protocols, but with the FAR superior training provided by my "trade school" in the realms of anatomy, neuro,biomechanics, patho/physio and stages of healing, designing a safe and effective rehab program hardly presents a challenge, and certainly is not a problem in any case that I've come across in my meager 1.5 years since graduating. BTW, we both have our B.S. in exercise phys.
Now, I AM NOT suggesting that DC is clinically superior to PT in every situation, as there is NO SUBSTITUTE for experience, and collaboration or at least communication b/t professions is always beneficial. Further, I WILL suggest that within the PT professions obvious and understandable lack of contentment with it's past(and present)niche in the health care realm, there are some seemingly very sour, or at least insecure members of the profession that feel the need to validate themselves by bashing the Chiros--many of which are on this board, to no surprise.
I would be willing to this day to take a fresh PT or DPT grad and a fresh grad from my trade school, and by some objective(of course)method, compare their level of expertise and knowledge in basically any area of healthcare delivery and overall knowledge of the human body. I'd bet my bottom dollar it would be...at least competitive.
Like it or not, Chiro's are considered doctors by the entire structure of the government, insurers/third party payers, etc. In most states, the scope and PRIVELEGE of practice is much broader than that of PT's in treatment and diagnostics and therefore responsibilities. A bone of contention for the PT profession? OF COURSE--and for some more than others, obviously.
I applaud and envy the PT profession for it's self-imposed higher educational criteria and expanded curriculum, and of course it's killer unified lobbying efforts to obtain what Chiro has ALWAYS enjoyed--INDEPENDENCE and AUTONOMY. It's a precarious situtation for the PT's though, as they must be careful not to bite the hand that feeds them, nor cut off the coat tails on which they've ridden on for so long. It seems all I hear about is POPTS--that's the acronym, right?.
Chiro has ALWAYS been slighted by the rest of healthcare b/c the rest of healthcare has always been strong armed by the AMA which was, of course, proven in the U.S. supreme court to have attempted to drown out the chiro profession. Now that makes it difficult to survive, let alone thrive. The politics are daunting. This was of course during a not so long ago time when the PTs were still HAPPY to get the rehab "scraps" thrown to them by the medical community. It was basically the entire purpose of the the PT existence. Now, the PT profession has decided to cause some distention in the ranks. Again, The politics are daunting.
I will also be the FIRST to point out that chiro has flaws within it's own regulation, as there do indeed remain some serious QUACKS out there. That lack of standardization, and it's tolerance by my profession(although it is getting better)is indeed MY source of malcontent and even a bit of embarassment(sp)with my profession.
Nonetheless, I will continue to do my ****dest to cement professional relationships(I'm soon to be partnering with an ortho surgeon to do a good deal of his rehab),and to learn, improve, and provide the best treatment that I can, and enjoy the freedom, autonomy, independence and priveleges that my not-a-real-doctor DC certificate affords me.
Truthfully, Im shocked that I let myself get into this, and I won't be continuing this dialouge. Just thought I'd throw in my humble opinion and perspective. Good luck to everyone with doing what we all really want to do...help the patients. ;)
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 9, 2007 3:31:00 AM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
Posts: 449
Joined: March 14, 2006
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I think Jason will not be back. My read on his post was that he was disgusted with the decline of the quality of the posts. More political posturing, less evidence based discussion. I can't say that I blame him.
A thread that starts with a title of computerized spinal exams has devolved into a pissing match AGAIN.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 9, 2007 5:05:00 AM
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docj04
Posts: 15
Joined: January 11, 2006
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FWIW, I would like to mention that Despite what many may be thinking, I do not consider myself a MASTER clinician. As they say, that's why they call it going into "practice" right?
Further, I don't know the experience level of many of the PT's or DC's that post here, but I am guessing that most if not all have more clinical experience than I have. That being said, I have no doubt that spending time in a clinical setting with any of them would certainly be very valuable and helpful.
That is the underlying point of my above post. Not to play the superiority game, but to get those who do nothing but slam chiro to actually consider that there are guys like me out there that are not the subluxation quacks, and that actually have accomplished an at least respectable education. Of course it may have come off a bit offensive to some,so forgive me for having at least some pride in my chosen profession.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 9, 2007 6:40:00 AM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
Posts: 449
Joined: March 14, 2006
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I wasn't really directing my post at you docj, sorry if it came off like that. I was really just commenting on J Silvernail's post. He used to post here a ton and does not any longer seem to do so. Some of the reasons, (I speculate) is that usually the topics start with good intentions and often end up somewhere completely different and often devolve into bickering. Por Ejemplo, read your post (not just yours really but any one of the previous 10-15 would work just as well) and tell me what it has to do with computerized spinal exams, the title of this thread.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - January 9, 2007 7:15:00 AM
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docj04
Posts: 15
Joined: January 11, 2006
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I agree 100%. I rarely ever post here. Mainly I just lurk, and enjoy some excellent and insightful discussions about relevant clinical topics. These divergent threads do happen from time to time, and until now, I've stayed out of them. I thought this would be a good time to at least estblish where I'm coming from.
BTW, in terms of computerized spinal exams, Semg, etc., as someone mentioned, it may be a decent enough patient compliance tool, b/c pts like visual feedback, but I would certainly NOT hang my diagnostic and or treatment validation hat on it. In chiro there are a bunch of CRAP machines like the "Subluxation station" that purports to ID those nasty "lesions" via Semg :rolleyes: . Of course the company that makes them is closely allignd with the "world Chiro Alliance", which is basically comprised all of the "straight" subluxation-based wierdos in my profession. Chiro is so cool :D
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