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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 7:21:00 AM
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dfjpt
Posts: 238
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I have to chuckle that Jeep considers a press release, anything about anything. Info-mercialism does not evidence-based practice make.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 9:22:00 AM
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jesse14
Posts: 21
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Wow, i go to NYC for a few days and this is what i come back to!
I don't have much time now cause i just got back about an hour ago and have family to see. But i will say this. OnstudentPT:
It's now unequivocally apparent to me that you are forever biased againt chiropractic. This, as you being a PT, is understandable but you MUST understand that you come into PT vs DC debates with extreme blinders on. In other words, i get the distinct feeling that before you read ANYTHING a DC posts or links to, you immediatley search for the "flaws" in it without actually gauging the resources substence. This makes talking with you usless.
About the Transfer of credits from CMCC. I realize this is anectodal evidence, but my 3rd year motor learning TA (what...not basket weaving?? lolol) was a CMCC grad who got transfer credits from from York to do her M.Sc is about a year. This EXACT question was raised at the SDN and i used the same anecdotal evidence to 'prove' my case. My TA got her physiology and neuro courses waved based on her course work at CMCC. This is fact.. whether you choose to accept it is up to you.
Agin with OnstudentPT.. we dicussed the very same issue (york turning down cmcc) over at the SDN. I thought we came to a mutual understanding but i guess you have the bully mentality...when a bunch of PT's degrade chiropractic you jump right on ship and do the same. Yet, when the atmosphere is more welcoming of chiropractic, you seem much more content with the profession. (Realize what words i just used :) You seem to go with what you feel the mutual consensus is instead of what you really feel.. which i now believe is a firm dislike for chiropractic.
One last thing before i go (don't worry, im LOADED with amunition to dissolve some of these absurd claims but have no time now. The dr title... some one said it will be gone in 5 years?? That's laughable. That shows me how little you actually know about chiropractic education and more so, how far off base you are. I AGREE 100% that it's wrong for a DC to claim he/she has 7 years of university based education. That's misleading and i'm aware of it. However, the DC is STILL at the doctorate level (unlike the Ms.PT) (4 years of professional training). That's not to say ones better than the other, but DC's, by law, have earned the right to use the title just like DDs's MD's, OD's and Psychologists. How you can refute that is beyond me.
"Chiros use manipulation ..and even manipulation done by chiro is somewhat different than if done by a physio..also how well are chiros trained in mobilization..and exercise therapy..? "
There you go again studentpt... you don't see what you're doing do you?? You question the DC's education in what seems like very disrespectul tones. If i'm interpreting it wrong, let me know. I'm not one to say one profession is better than the other but i will say this to studentpt (once again). DC's have 2 more years (20 more months) of training than you will recieve once you're done your program. That's almost double the education you'll get. I'm NOt saying that DC's are better than you b/c that's not the case. It's just that you have to realize that they've learned more than you. There is NOOO way you can tell me that what DC's do in 4 years, you guys sqeese into 2. I don't buy it for a second.
WOW.. i really need to go.
More on this later.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 10:26:00 AM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
Joined: July 25, 2006
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"I have to chuckle that Jeep considers a press release, anything about anything. Info-mercialism does not evidence-based practice make."
DFJPT,
That is why I wonder about chiros understanding of levels of evidence and evidence based practise....
Jesse,
"Chiros use manipulation ..and even manipulation done by chiro is somewhat different than if done by a physio..also how well are chiros trained in mobilization..and exercise therapy..? "
What kind of education/training do you have to refute that manipulation done by chiros and PTs is not somewhat different and also what kind of education/training do you have which allows you to explain the type of mobilization and exercise therapy training chiros have.
That was merely a statement and a couple of questions.
And anecdotal evidence is the lowest level.. you have to come up with something better than that. I have used anecdotal evidence before but I realize it is useless to do so and would not do it again.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 12:44:00 PM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Jesse
>>>>some one said it will be gone in 5 years?? That's laughable. That shows me how little you actually know about chiropractic education and more so, how far off base you are. I AGREE 100% that it's wrong for a DC to claim he/she has 7 years of university based education. That's misleading and i'm aware of it. However, the DC is STILL at the doctorate level (unlike the Ms.PT) (4 years of professional training). That's not to say ones better than the other, but DC's, by law, have earned the right to use the title just like DDs's MD's, OD's and Psychologists. How you can refute that is beyond me.>>>>>
We shall see. And as for refuting this blunder?The distinquishing feature about the professions you mention who use the "dr" term is...you guessed it, university.
trust me, this little tidbit is not lost on some influencial individuals. The blatent misuse of the term as wonderfully displayed by Mr. sharda, is why MD's and politicians as well as some patient advocate groups will see that title removed from DC's. It will happen before long. And it should.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:06:00 PM
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dfjpt
Posts: 238
Joined: April 9, 2006
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[QUOTE]MD's and politicians as well as some patient advocate groups will see that title removed from DC's. It will happen before long. And it should.[/QUOTE]Yes it should. Such a ray of hope. Glad to hear this proud. I will refrain for now from pressing you for details on this.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:14:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
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"MD's and politicians as well as some patient advocate groups will see that title removed from DC's. It will happen before long. And it should."
This would help ease the confusion of the public.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:20:00 PM
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Lehmkuhler
Posts: 69
Joined: December 14, 2005
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Do osteopaths generally graduate from private professional schools?
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:27:00 PM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
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And if I may add one last thing. Anytime this type of topic arises, it immediately is suggested that it is a childish endeavour.
In fact, I feel anything that serves to confuse the public is an important topic worthy of debate. I am certain the day that PT's in canada transition to DPT's, our regulatory committee's will take a very responsible stance.
It is a topic that is far from childish as it involves the interest of the public. THE most important topic when it comes to healthcare delivery.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:36:00 PM
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jesse14
Posts: 21
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Proud,
Please show me any subtsance to back up your assertion that MD's and politicians are trying to remove the dr titlle from DC's. You're dreaming... that is probably the most unsubstatiated claim i've read on this web site..
Oh yeah, i know that in the US podiatrists can use the dr title (and so they should). Many of the pod schools are not universities. (New York college of pod med, scholl, etc) So, by your assertions, should they have their dr title removed as well?? What you fail to understand is that DC's have to go through 4 years of professional doctorate education to obtain a DC. That and that alone permits their use of the dr title.
ONstudent:
I don't buy that you want the dr title removed b/c of patient confusion. You want it removed because they have something you don't and you don't like it plain and simple. That's not to say u want to become a DC. It's just one thing they hold over you that makes you cringe. Fairly obvious deduction based on your comments draws me to that conclusion. If you disagree, which i'm sure you will, we'll just have to let it go.
Oh yeah studentpt.. of all that i said in my post you chose to comment on the one thing that i have no possible way of providing real facts for. Would you want me to call York, ask them if transfer credit is given to DC's, tape the conversation, and mail it to you? I really can't see how i could obtain such info. If you have an idea, let me know and i'll do my best to find it.
On a side.. i know that some of the more reputable carribean MD schhols (ROss, SGU) waive the MCAT if you have a DC. Now, i know that's not actual any credits given but it goes along with this conversation.
I have an exam to study for but there are so many posts i wish to comment on.. Take care for now
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:37:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
Joined: July 25, 2006
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Osteopaths dont graduate in Canada..I am not sure how it works in the states...
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:47:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
Posts: 224
Joined: July 25, 2006
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Jesse,
No they dont have something I want .. if I wanted to I could have went CMCC very easily but I chose not to. Several students in my class also got into CMCC and also chose not to go..so what is it that they have that I want .. the use of the term Dr... as DC I would rather not have it then get ostracized for using it and trying to present my self as a physician.
Preventing public confusion is a very important issue.. and by regulatng the use of the Dr. term it would help ease this.
I think PTs should play a larger role in public education about what evidence based practise is and what it means to be an evidence based health care practitioner.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 1:49:00 PM
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jlharris
Posts: 477
Joined: April 12, 2006
From: Nebraska
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jesse14 said:
[QUOTE]DC's have to go through 4 years of professional doctorate education to obtain a DC. That and that alone permits their use of the dr title. [/QUOTE]I wish that were the case. I've completed 7 years of University schooling, earned a doctorate and, yet, would be soundly ostracized for using the "Doctor" title where I'm from. Why? It's generally believed the public equates Doctor with physician. Which I'm not, and neither are chiropractors. There is definitely some envy on my part when it comes to DC's and their unabashed use of the doctor title.
As a side note. In my city, there are a couple of PT's that have stuck their neck out and embraced the "doctor" title. Their reward. One of the largest Orthopeadic groups telling me that they will NEVER refer a patient to them because of it. I guess I also envy true direct access. Funny how our (PT's) biggest ally is also our biggest naysayer.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 2:01:00 PM
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Lehmkuhler
Posts: 69
Joined: December 14, 2005
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proud;
If we're truly interested in informing the public, I'm all for it. But that's not your intent.
And if people knew more about DC education they'd probably be very surprised. Most think it's a couple of classes or a 6 month certificate so I'm all for clarification.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 2:18:00 PM
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proud
Posts: 944
Joined: March 22, 2006
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>>>>If we're truly interested in informing the public, I'm all for it. But that's not your intent.>>>>
Really? Why do you say this when I suggest that DPT's take caution with the "Dr" term?
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 2:31:00 PM
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dfjpt
Posts: 238
Joined: April 9, 2006
Status: offline
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Jesse, [QUOTE]You want it removed because they have something you don't and you don't like it plain and simple. That's not to say u want to become a DC. It's just one thing they hold over you that makes you cringe.[/QUOTE]Haha.. Dream on. It's as members of the public, who are also in the know, that makes many of us not cringe, but rather experience nausea. This whole issue is actually outside the PT vs. DC arena if you really want to know the truth.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 4:10:00 PM
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touchiba
Posts: 101
Joined: November 11, 2002
From: PA
Status: offline
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Since we've been probed for RCTs... any out there on what you do Diane? What do you call it, simple touch or gentle touch technique? How do you feel about what she's doing proud and onstudent?
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 4:29:00 PM
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dfjpt
Posts: 238
Joined: April 9, 2006
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"Since we've been probed for RCTs... any out there on what you do Diane? What do you call it, simple touch or gentle touch technique? How do you feel about what she's doing proud and onstudent?" Don't try to turn this around and make it about me. It isn't. It's about chiros pretending to be something they aren't but think they can get some traction with publically if they assert that it is a fact, even if it isn't. Face it. No other "profession" would ever be caught dead doing this.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 5:00:00 PM
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touchiba
Posts: 101
Joined: November 11, 2002
From: PA
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Here's some windex for that glass house : )
So, you claim to provide physical therapy when you use your method? Are you misrepresenting yourself? Dont worry about it, you dont have to answer us.
To sum up my feelings on the tangent this thread went off on, I cannot and do not defend this chiropractor's actions to use the description of his education as "7 years of university based training". However, I will defend that chiropractic education is rigorouos and the pre-reqs are not all '100 level courses'.
As a fan of Bill O'Reilly, I'll let you have the last word.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 13, 2006 6:15:00 PM
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dfjpt
Posts: 238
Joined: April 9, 2006
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[QUOTE]However, I will defend that chiropractic education is rigorouos and the pre-reqs are not all '100 level courses'. [/QUOTE]About this point that seems to be a sticker for you, there is nowhere it says otherwise, i.e., nowhere is it stated that any actual completion of a program must be attained, just that candidates should have dipped into this and into that, which could be all 101's. Show me otherwise if you care to. If you can.
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Re: Computerized Spinal Exams - November 14, 2006 2:05:00 AM
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PainFree
Posts: 84
Joined: August 13, 2006
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just to add something meaningless, I love reading NOIGROUP. Recently, several individuals who have had zero traffic at their website touting their techniques have literally taken over the NOIGROUP. One such individual lives in a glass house and is so adament against one group that he/ she is unable to see the lumber lodged in his/ her own eye (philosophy/ technique)
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