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Re: "special skills"
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Re: "special skills" - September 19, 2006 4:41:00 PM
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jbird007
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What happend to our friendly discussion group?
Jbird
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Re: "special skills" - September 19, 2006 4:51:00 PM
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jbird007
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From: USA
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..and one MORE time..
proud,
If a PT is performing a non-specific general form of palpation, is he/she practicing unethically and is this considered to be quackery?
IYO, What type of palpation is specific?
Jbird
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Re: "special skills" - September 19, 2006 5:05:00 PM
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proud
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jbird007,
Honestly, I do not understand the question. What on earth is a non-specific form of palpation?
And, what is "type" of palpation? Palpation is palpation. You get a sense for general mobility and fit that finding in with the rest of the clincal picture. Palpation is the cornerstone of most medical practices. It is rarely specific and requires clinical corrolation with the rest of the clinical picture.
So no, palpation is not quakary. And I think I answered your second question. All my opinion of course so hopefully you can discuss in a professional manner instead of calling me names?
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Re: "special skills" - September 19, 2006 6:14:00 PM
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jbird007
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From: USA
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Proud, tell me why you went back and changed/edited your prior posting?
You stated earlier that "there is little or no credibility by palpation"
Now you are saying "palpation is palpation"
..you went on to discuss specific palpation etc but that has now been edited.
btw, I have acted professional and you and I both know you are Alan Botnick so lets get beyond that charade.
So, why did you "doctor your notes?"
JBird
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Re: "special skills" - September 19, 2006 6:34:00 PM
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jbird007
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From: USA
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I have a very good memory. Here is a few lines you changed:
"there is little or no credibility by palpation"
You took out "unless it is specific"
"I think any chiropractor or PT who bases their manipulation on motion palpation is either fooling themselves or their patients."
You changed this line too and added "motion palpation."
Hmm?
J
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Re: "special skills" - September 20, 2006 1:04:00 AM
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proud
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Huh
Wow jbird007, I think we are done here.
I will continue to post research on various topics including motion palpation, mobilization,manipulation. Feel free to read them.
Regards,
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Re: "special skills" - September 20, 2006 3:55:00 AM
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jbird007
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From: USA
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Thats your answer? HUH?
You avoided the question 3 times.
Then you went back and edited your posts.
Then you answered the question.
Nice work, Allan
JBird
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Re: "special skills" - September 21, 2006 8:55:00 AM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
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From: Kentucky
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Jbird,
I will try to answer for Proud because I am pretty sure I know what he was getting at.
Some PTs and Chiros both utilize palpation to help them decide clinically to perform manipulation. For example, a provider may palpate the PSIS or ASIS on one or both sides and decide that the Pelvis is "rotated" a certain direction. Or they may palpate the sacrum and decide that the sacrum is rotated or "out of place". They then utilize this information to help them clinically decide to perform a lumbosacral manipulation technique with the end result in being a correctly aligned pelvis or sacrum. They perform the manip and then re-palpate these pelvic and sacral landmarks concluding that they have corrected the rotation etc etc. I agree with Proud that this type of palpation and clinical decision making is bogus and has been found over and over to be unreliable in the literature.
_____________________________
Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
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Re: "special skills" - September 21, 2006 9:00:00 AM
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proud
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Yes Alex, that is the point of my original topic. Thank you.
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Re: "special skills" - September 21, 2006 9:10:00 AM
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Jeep
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Alex- Your description sounds like static palpation?
Proud is talking about motion palpation(at least that is his claim).
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Re: "special skills" - September 21, 2006 9:31:00 AM
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proud
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Jeep,
As Alex described, using palpation as a singular guide to manipulation has been shown over and over again to be bogus. You can use the palpation finding in conjunction with a cluster of examination findings to improve the likelihood that the finding is relevant.
Motion palpation( or as described by the Canadian Orthopeadic Division in it's courses...passive and accessory intervertebral movements), which is even more complicated, only adds to the inprobability that the "finding" should guide clinical decisions.
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Re: "special skills" - September 21, 2006 9:42:00 AM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
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From: Kentucky
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Jeep,
I am not familiar with motion palpation but if we can't even reliably palpate in a static position adding motion would seem to make it even more difficult. And remember, these reliablity studies were conducted with "Experts" with many years of palpation experience. Even the experts were not reliable.
_____________________________
Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
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Re: "special skills" - September 25, 2006 9:05:00 PM
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GA111
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manipulation is an entry level skill and sooner or later schools will be required to teach manipulation for entry level students.
There is nothing specific about manipulation. no one can claim that he can manipulate l4/5 only.
There has been a study in a peer reviewed journal that proved that there were no differences between therapists who offered manipulation and stabilization, regardless of expertise, years of experience, speciality certifications.
chiropractors have very busy clinics because of manipulation.
Manipulation is an effective tool to be used along with exercise and soft tissue mobilization.
Manipulation is not good for all patients, but it can benefit some patients
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