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Re: Remembering those on 9/11
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 10:26:00 AM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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Junction,
One last time; Bldg 7 did not fall on its own. It was ordered to be pulled.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 11:21:00 AM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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A fire has never, EVER, EVER before or after 9/11, caused a steel-frame building to collapse.
NEVER!
You may say " ther is a first time for everything."
THREE IN A ROW????
J
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 11:37:00 AM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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I'm sorry you cannot discuss this maturely.
"the man who throws the first punch is the man who runs out of ideas."
Sincerely,
Jbird
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 3:49:00 PM
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Shill
Posts: 1097
Joined: February 13, 2003
From: Madison WI USA
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I second the cowbell. Mr Bird, you will not listen to those who have refuted your argument intelligently already (see Jon's link for a nice summary). Your argument is simply wrong, and its not just my opinion, but a fact, clearly outlined by people far smarter than I am. I do not wish to discuss your theories anymore, as again, it has already been done. I wish you the best, whatever your view of that might be.
Steve
_____________________________
Steve Hill PT
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 4:15:00 PM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
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From: USA
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Then stand up for what you believe. Sign up and fight the war.
JBird
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 5:04:00 PM
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rwillcott
Posts: 436
Joined: March 20, 2006
From: Canada
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US = No Oil
Iraq = Endless Oil
Any questions?
Rob
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 5:17:00 PM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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bingo!
..and there was only one way to sell the war.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 5:33:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 216
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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did either of you junction, jon,shill even look at the simple video explination?
Yes, buildings fall w/out demolition, but when you find one that falls perfectly in it's own footprint, let me know about that one, please.
"The photos below are of buildings collapsed by an earthquake. They show the typical result of a single load bearing member failure - the buildings are tipped over onto the initiating point."
So, either it fell via fire, which it should have collapsed rater non-uniformly such as shown below, or it was demolished as [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E-26oVIIs]silverstein requested,[/URL] which is it guys? I'm very interested when logic will take over for those in denial like I was at first, but when this is put in front of you and you refuse to look at it, it's natural to want to listen to the easy answer that's been fed to you and does not lead to an unanswered question about someone lying to us...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/buildfall2.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/buildfall5.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/buildfall6.jpg
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/buildfall7.jpg
Please fin a building that collapsed due to fire, as I've shown you an actual before/after video of a building burning at a temperature much higher and for at least 4 x the time that building 7 burned, and it did not fall. (I posted this on the 1st page of this discussion and the videos of the Windsor building in Madrid)
-quick parallel example of the windsor building while it burned vs building 7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUjaLQDJdMc
-after the windsor building burned (but did not collapse)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ywScL2dJKM
This isn't an argument, it's showing you visual facts, how ever hard it is to accept because you're not sure where one question about 9/11 may lead you.
Take 10 minutes, look at what I'm saying here, and ask logical questions next, instead of saying "man, that robpt guy, he's insane" with out even taking time to do some research for yourself vs. just reacting w/emotion.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 6:02:00 PM
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rwillcott
Posts: 436
Joined: March 20, 2006
From: Canada
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jbird007,
As a Vietnam Vet do you see similarities to what is happenig now in Iraq?
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 6:12:00 PM
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rwillcott
Posts: 436
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From: Canada
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My impression is that it was a terrorist attack on the US. But more specifically Bush Jr. He was a president that prior to 9/11 had no direction. All of sudden he had "The War on Terror!", whatever that means.
It's clear that many in the world were not happy with Bush Sr. and had been plotting this attack for quite some time. No coincidence that it didn't happen with Clinton in power. I think it was payback for the first Gulf War.
I also think that the US played directly into the hands of the terrorists. Moving into Afghanistan and Iraq was what the terrorists were expecting and hoping for. All of a sudden we have the West against the Muslim world.....
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 6:45:00 PM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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rwilcott,
When I was drafted, I honestly thought I was protecting my country by stopping the spread of communism. Six years after my tour of duty I found out the basis for that war was false. I was lied to then and they are lying to us now. The only difference is our government (directly or indirectly) had a hand in killing 3000 Americans on our own soil to manipulate the American people into supporting a war in the so-called battle against Middle East terrorists. Only this war is (without a doubt) over oil, power and global dominance. And sadly, it appears as though this is a war that may never end.
The US will continue to spiral into a fascist regime and the many people that ignore it and continue to believe that all is well will eventually find out but it may be too late.
Little by little our government is trampling the Constitution and soon it will be meaningless. Then, all hell will break loose.
JBird
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 7:02:00 PM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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Rob,
Junction and Shills "cowbell" antics are the waving of the white flag called surrender. They cannot answer the hard questions. It was a childish and disrespectful display.
What bothers me most is they are not man enough to professionally state they "agree to disagree."
Jbird007
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 7:09:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 216
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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I felt the same way until it was brought to my attention that a 48 story building crumbled like a deck of cards. I heard nothing about that at all on or around 9/11 previously before the begining of this year. It shifted my paradigm completely and answered lots of questions that were nagging at me since 9/11...
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 13, 2006 8:11:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 216
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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When you research it for yourself and answer every question you just typed and thought "what an idiot, of course he can't answer this question", then come back to me. Right now I can't answer each question individually, but I can do quick summary on each:...*ok, i lied...I answered the ones I could w/some info for you to at least ponder over.
* Did any one of the WTC buildings fall perfectly into its own footprint?
Well, maybe you would call this pretty clost to falling in it's own footprint, as the other buildings aren't damaged the the point of falling over, even though the building below it has a huge chunk out of it, but still stands...
[IMG]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc7-debris.jpg[/IMG]
Check the overhead views afterwards and see what other buildings fell down before wtc1,2, & 7. The buildings next to them are still standing, correct? Google something like "world trade center map" or something to see an overhead view w/distances... ok, here's one, I keep editing this to make it easier since you're not looking like one to actually look things up if you think it's full of hot air. [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center]scroll down to see the image of the tower locations[/URL]
* Does it take just a small amount of force to shift something the size of a city block laterally by one meter and topple like a small apartment building? Not sure what you're asking here...
* Is pushing a Geo Metro by hand about as difficult as pushing an 18 wheeler truck loaded with lead bars? Still not sure what you're getting at, but probably speaking to the effect of each building being different size... To which I'll reply... have you ever seen another building hit with a plane and it stood up to it? Google that and you'll be suprised. Ah heck here ya go... http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm Also, there have been previous fires in the WTC.
[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center#February_13.2C_1975_fire]On February 13, 1975, the WTC North Tower was beset by a fire, which "burned at temperatures in excess of 700°C (1,292°F) for over three hours and spread over some 65 percent of the 11th floor, including the core, caused no serious structural damage to the steel structure. In particular, no trusses needed to be replaced."
Sources: New York Times, Saturday 15th February 1975[/URL]
* Is the effect of an earthquake on any particular building the same as the effect of a jet fuel fire on the same building? Not sure which is supposed to have the greater effect, but regardless, apparently, a jet explosion is just as powerful at bringing down a building symetrically as a demolition explosion of a building, and much more symetrical than an earthquake. Besides, did the plane that his the 2nd tower (1st tower to fall) hit the building right in the center? So, in theory, something's going to be more compromised on one side than the other, hence, should it have fallen down straight?
* Did L. Silverstein make a statement in which he clearly admits the order for a demolition of WTC 7? Are you not watching the videos I'm posting? Honestly, it's right there...Do you know the meaning of "pull the building"? What do you think he meant by "pull the building"? In the same PBS show, it shows a demolition team saying "we're getting ready to -pull- building 6" during the later weeks after 9/11... What does "Pull" mean in your estimation? [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E-26oVIIs]Here it is, again, for your viewing pleasure...[/URL]
* Are law enforcement officials in New York holding off on prosecuting Silverstein because they just don't feel like it right now? Nope, he tried to get double the insurance payment around 7 billion, and only got half, oh bummer Larry Silverstein...Again, look some things up, use Google, it could clear many of your questions right up. *Another edit for you* http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/cutter.html
* Was the 29-story Windsor building in Madrid the same height, mass and design of WTC 7, or WTC 1 and 2? Steel structured buildings... You don't build a steel frame building with different basic designs. Again, look up the specifics to find how -similar or different (as this question leads me to believe you think building 7 and Windsor building are build completely different)
* Was the Windsor building in Madrid damaged by debris from a 107 floor office tower collapse? Nope, neither was Building 7. Look at the NIST report, (google/their own website) they still do not know (and the previous theories have all been disregarded) how building 7 fell down.
* Are all buildings regardless of size, design and composition, regularly homogenous on the inside like play-doh? Do all buildings behave the same way in response to fire, earthquake, or jet fuel bomb attack? Well, if you were building a building, would you use cheap materials, and there are such things in societies that are known as "building codes" where you must use specific materials and techniques to ensure the building is sound of structure... Again, google that and find out.
* Does a visual display of a building from a distance render all the facts about the behavior of the building under destabilizing influences? No, but all you have to do is find the falling times of building 7 vs. gravity's pull on a falling object. If there was also a "pancake" or "structural failure" in all the support collumns in building 7 at the exact same time that would allow the building to fall straight down, how does it explain the speed the building fell down? You can not have a building fall to the ground at the speed of gravity w/o demolition assistance. Physics. Again, google for more info.
* Does the absence of structural, civil, architectural and mechanical engineers supporting the conspiracy theory give you any clue as to whether those with greatest expertise on the subject have any credence in the controlled demolition theory? This shows your lack of knowledge and your ability to just spout things you have no idea about. Which would you like me to point out first? http://www.st911.org/
Google "steven jones 911", a BYU physics professor. or even better, so you won't have to read crazy stuff, just go to youtube.com and type in steven jones
* Of the people who mastermind the controlled demolition theory, do any one of them hold an engineering degree and have real experience with building design or construction? Yes, see above...
* When you need medical advice about a brain aneurysm that might kill you, is it advisable to seek out advice and intervention from a guy you know who has a history of mental illness and claims to understand brain surgery because he watches TV, rather than finding help from a university trained neurosurgeon with years of practical experience?
Nope, but I'm sure as hell going to read up on the "expert" surgeon that I'm going to go to. And on top of that, I'm going to get several opinions and go with the one that I feel is most competant and has the most logical approach. I don't want a surgeon who got lucky at solving a complicated brain surgery one time and expect the same results with my surgery. Just like all these "experts" who claim to figure out how the buildings fell, but can not produce an experiment or computerized model based in actual physics (not imaginary "what if" theory) to show how these buildings fell. And yes, I'm talking about the National Geographic/PBS specials that toss out the "pancake" effect of why tower 1/2 fell, but no one touches building 7 in the national media because it has no answer, no plane hit it. And if a building can fall down with some random damage and small fires (find me pictures of building 7 with large damage or fires the size of the Windsor building fires...), why the heck is there an industry for controlled demolition.
Thanks for the discussion. I do enjoy this.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 2:26:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1206
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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This is funny. Interesting, but funny.
Especially this one:
"but no one touches building 7 in the national media because it has no answer, no plane hit it."
That is what really gets ne giggling. In the country where digging up mud on any politician is a great undertaking of many media - get the scoop! - this "conspiracy" is getting nothing more than pathetic exposure in mostly internet publications.
In the country where the Washington Post toppled a presidency, there is not ONE reliable big news agency even making a peep about this?
Oh, of course, they are all in the pocket of the big bad people - just puppets...
"You can not have a building fall to the ground at the speed of gravity w/o demolition assistance." Huh? You can't? And why not? Really - explain. Just pointing at another internet search is pathetic - you make a sweeping statement without ANY supporting data or research. I am afraid that buildings have a tendency to fall fast, when their "support" structure is severely damaged - by DEMOLITION or other causes. That is MY sweeping statement.
And PLEASE talk to an architect who can explain the enormous variety in how buildings are built WITHIN building codes - tiny little variances like say, width...., height.....depth....
And ONE BYU professor? Geesh, I bet I can find at least 5 professors who believe even wilder things. That does not mean a bloody thing! ONE guy....Steven Jones. Hitherto completely unknown to most of the world, and now: ooooh, right in the thick of it....
And don't forget the complete brain fart of Siverstein to leave such awfully clear insurance trails so every bozo can find them and claim his collusion with the greatest hoax in American history (other than the fake moonlanding of course...). Silverstein is obviously a very dumb man LMAO.
The engineers across the hall in my clinic's building have had a good giggle about the "proof" of demolition by design.
PS: I am NOT a fan of Bush et al. but this goes beyond belief. Actually, it IS about belief - the conspiracy theorists can not accept the evidence so clearly against their theory....because it goes against their belief.
_____________________________
Mundi vult decipi
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 3:37:00 AM
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Shill
Posts: 1097
Joined: February 13, 2003
From: Madison WI USA
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Amen Sebastian, Amen.
"There is nothing to say to those who dont listen"
--Me
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Steve Hill PT
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 5:11:00 AM
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MPT
Posts: 161
Joined: April 4, 2004
From: Syracuse, New York
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Do your really think the Bush admin could keep a secret that big? They can't even keep "secret" prison camps and phone taps out of the media. How the heck could they keep an action like this on under the carpet?
_____________________________
Where am I
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 5:51:00 AM
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rv36116
Posts: 216
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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Manhattan project AR15
And that's why I shouldn't have wasted my time...
Junction, you have nothing else but a physics professor can't speak about anything but his specific field of physics, wow.
And cold fusion, wow, that's childsplay, I'm sure he's an idiot with an IQ that wouldn't let him actually know more than 1 thing in his field, huh?
You just blew over everything else I answered for you. Thanks for the discussion.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 6:20:00 AM
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jbird007
Posts: 297
Joined: May 2, 2006
From: USA
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AR15,
It's not a secret.
J
Anyone truely interested in discusssing 911 needs to read the 911 Commission Report. Hundreds of valuable pieces of info were omitted and Bush and many other top figures were exempt, not to mention the continual avoidance of answering direct questions. Pure treason.
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Re: Remembering those on 9/11 - September 14, 2006 8:18:00 AM
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rv36116
Posts: 216
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
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Junction, you still are missing the points I've made, and wasted my time. Just stop while you're ahead. You won't wake up to the facts.
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