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Re: BIG Medical mistake!
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 23, 2006 8:15:00 PM
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TLB
Posts: 350
Joined: September 13, 2002
From: Arizona
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That's sweet.
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Todd
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 23, 2006 9:05:00 PM
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expatient
Posts: 17
Joined: May 16, 2006
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In our country there is no chiroweb. And I did not get any help from chiropractors!!!
I have met many PTs, MDs, neurologist, orthopedist and some others. No-one even checked (palpated) my pelvis. They all told me to get a heel lift and said I just have to learn to live with my pains!
I have askt many PTs and MDs after that what they think about functional leg length discrepancy/difference/inequality. Most of them said there is no such thing and only solution is to use heel lifts! But there are few who told me that almost all LLIs (LLDs) are functional... there is hope!
I collected few stories from few patients. And many are just like mine... And there are much more those on public Forums: SIJD patients like I was. I don't know how many, but thousands!
And only like 1% of all SIJD patients are on web talking about it, so there are hundred times more of them in real life. And because only 1% of patients have got the right diagnosis, there are again hundred times more of them. That makes millions of people world wide... And that is not a reason to get psychosomatic reactions? ;)
Take a look at their stories:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/faro/Selkasivut/Others.html
And I will look for more. There are a lot more of those! How many is needed..?
A patient is always wrong...? :(
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 23, 2006 9:58:00 PM
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jlharris
Posts: 469
Joined: April 12, 2006
From: Nebraska
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expatient,
You can flood this forum with all the testimonials you want, but it is not going to help your cause. Why?? I can search the internet and most likely find many testimonials from people stating magnets cured their LBP, or touch therapy, or horse ointment; but in the end they are just some (usually unqualified) opinion.
Heck, at this point in my career, I do think there are such things as pelvic asymmetries and LLD's. But I wasn't convinced with testimonials. That's the problem the others are bringing up. All you are presenting are testimonials because the research is so sparse and inconclusive (in general) regarding pelvic asymmetries and how to palpate them.
Glad you were able to find relief from your pain, and I hope you can find good research supporting your opinions.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 23, 2006 10:45:00 PM
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expatient
Posts: 17
Joined: May 16, 2006
Status: offline
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But those patients tell that they did NOT get help... they are not testimonials, they are misdiagnosed and mistreated for many years until someone finally showed them where the problem really was. Even after that most of them haven't got help...
I had LLI, scoliosis and bad posture (lordosis, kyphosis, forward head, shoulders moved forward) diagnosed when I was 12yrs old. (My LBP started when I was about 17. Leg weakness about 20.) Over 20 years later (after over 100 visits to all kind of different doctors, PTs, chiropractics, naprapath, tests, X-pictures and others) I finally found PT who corrected it. No more LLI and much better posture now. But why it took so long?? No-one bothered to check my pelvis!
SIJD patients, who have got help, are rare because almost no-one knows how to help them... most believe that pelvis malalignments are because of true LLI. But it is not so.
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 2:57:00 AM
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JSPT
Posts: 277
Joined: April 19, 2005
From: Michigan
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Hold on, now.
"And I did not get any help from chiropractors!!!"
"(after over 100 visits to all kind of different doctors, PTs, CHIROPRACTICS, naprapath, tests, X-pictures and others)"
So did you go to a chiro or not?
"SIJD patients, who have got help, are rare because almost no-one knows how to help them... most believe that pelvis malalignments are because of true LLI. But it is not so."
Every PT I know checks for pelvic issues, and most believe that true LLI's are very rare as compared to functional LLI's. Even if you have seen 20 PT's in your life, that is an incredbibly small sampling of the profession. Sorry, there is just too many things about your story and your arguments that don't add up.
What is motivating you to continue to post here? Are you trying to open our eyes? I can tell you, there are open. Do you have an ax to grind with PT's? Then write a letter to those whom treated you.
I really don't think you're going to get anywhere with no research data and inconsistent statements, as those listed above seem to be.
I don't think you're from chiroweb because if you had even very basic schooling in scientific research, you would know that all of your arguments boil down to heresay and have no solid ground on which to stand.
So, again, why are you telling us all of this?
_____________________________
JS
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 3:47:00 AM
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expatient
Posts: 17
Joined: May 16, 2006
Status: offline
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I first visited one chiro once. No help at all. He said my other leg is shorter and asked me to get a heel lift.
Then I visited 3 MD PTs (doctors of physical therapy, I don't know the term in english). Same result. And same result with few visits to regular MDs.
Then I moved to other city and visited one chiro about 15 times. I got some help from him when he twisted my pelvis using "chops" under my pelvis and pushed my pelvis down. I felt it rotated. But becaus if was only stretching it did't correct anything. Few hours I felt little better but that was all.
Then I found a naprapath. He was great with spinal manipulation, but didn't know anything about pelvis. So his treatment helped me from few hourst to two days, but then the pain and headacke came back. He did'n know how to correct my SIJD. I visited that naprapaht about 30 times during many years. He kept me alive by giving me some hope...
Then I tried acupuncture like 30 times. It gave me some help to lower back. Some muscules started to work and I felt a little bit better. Pain level lowered wrom 10 to 9.
At the same time I visited orthopedian 3 times, neurology (if suspected MS), other PTs, massagers, MDs, MD PTs, like 20 times... And then finally I found one MD PT who pushed my SI back to its place! No more pain! No headacke! No TOS syndrome, no high blood pressure, no heart problems, no weak legs, no LLI,...
That was a year ago. Since that I have been interviewing patients who I have sent to that MD PT and 90% of them have got immediate help from correcting their SIJ. I have met and talked to about 60 patients who have similar history as I have. And I keep having those more every week...
I am asking you to learn what SIJD (hypermobile SIJ/tilted pelvis/upslip/rotated pelvis/pelvis torsion/...) is and how to treat it. It exists with all the LBP patients and no-one seems to know about it... And it causes scoliosis, lordosis, kyphosis, bad posture, LLI, fibromyalgia, headache, neck/shoulder muscule tension,...
"Do you have an ax to grind with PT's? Then write a letter to those whom treated you."
I wrote my last chiro about SIJD. He told me to f** my self and never to contact him again...
I last talked to an osteopath. She said she knows how to treat SIJD. I sent to her one patient. She didn't find anything wrong on that patient, only left leg was shorter and that is why patients pelvis was little bit twisted. But SIJs were normal according to her. And she suggested to buy a heel lift for that short leg. Later that same patient went to that other specialist (only one in the country) and got his SIJ corrected and no more LLI. No more LBP.
I have contacted many PTs, MDs and others. No-one believes me. They haven't even heard about SIJD. And this specialist is old and don't want to make noise...
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 4:50:00 AM
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SJBird55
Posts: 2363
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
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As I said... you have a lot of psychosomatic issues and other variables that you aren't sharing. You saw a neurologist, huh?
Not a single person here has disagreed that SIJ problems exist. You actually haven't even posted the strongest research-based evidence in regard to a cluster of tests that do indicate with a higher probability than anything else that the SIJ is involved in the patient's complaint.
I think you might have more sympathy if you post at any of the opinion sites you like to read and cite. Very few of us here will believe everything you spew out because you aren't credible. You are emotionally charged and not posting rational thoughts. There have been multiple educational and debating conversations here regarding the SIJ. Do a search and read the discussions from the last 4 years. After you take the time to read them, you'll realize quite quickly that you aren't "teaching" any of us anything new and that your "evidence" is the most shallow of shallow evidence.
What no one knows how to treat effectively with consistently good results are patients that have a large amount of combinations of psychological/social issues - like symptom magnification, fear, stress, depression, off work status, auto accident situations, litigation situations, people that strongly dislike their jobs, strong emotions - all those mixed together are a dangerous concoction in and of themselves (forget the SIJ). Toss a combination of those psychological/social issues into the mix with an SIJ diagnosis and well, there WILL be poorer outcomes. Because we are human, there is SO much more in determining successful outcomes than just that little SIJ.
AND, just to let you know... a BIG medical mistake is when someone dies. You obviously didn't die. There was no medical mistake at all. Again, your perceptions seem magnified.
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 6:02:00 AM
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expatient
Posts: 17
Joined: May 16, 2006
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"You saw a neurologist, huh?"
I wanted to rule out MS because I had headackes/migrens, finger numbness, dizzynes, heart problems, high blood pressure, weak legs, foot cramps, breathing troubles, ischias, back pain,... I was an head MRI and an electric nerve impulse test. Both normal.
"You actually haven't even posted the strongest research-based evidence in regard to a cluster of tests that do indicate with a higher probability than anything else that the SIJ is involved in the patient's complaint."
There is no such evidence because almost no-one knows how to treat it! But there are studies about effects it can have...
Ofcourse not all of my symptoms came directly from SIJD. But when iliac bone is rotated it creates muscular inbalance and spinal curves, scoliosis and lordosis. It is so obvious. And those posture errors and tight muscules create pinced nerves that cause troubles: finger numbnes, headaches, heart problems, ischias...
To those symptoms I got temporarily help from manual therapy. But because they didn't correct the original reason that caused the muscular inbalance, the help didn't last long... They diagnosed hypermobile spine and chronick pain. I heard many times: "Accept the pain and learn to live with it!"
Many has died by doing a suicide because they didn't get help for their pain. Here 200 patients kill themseves every year because of that. World wide it must be tens of thousands of suicides...
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 12:27:00 PM
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james097
Posts: 178
Joined: January 27, 2005
From: West Vancouver BC
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I remember well a few patients I had very similar to expatient. Two stuck in my memory. They both had had back pain for about 20 years, day in day out and had seen as many practitioners as expatient. They were healthy and perfectly well apart from back pain. Both were cured at the first visit with me, suddenly, by rotating the lumbar spine, surely a miracle of the Lord. These two individuals stayed pain free for several months that I know of and maybe forever. Unfortunately within a few months one developed a dreadful rash all over his body and had seen several docs without any help. The other I saw in a nearby clinic a few months after my brilliant cure and I asked him if his back was giving him trouble again. He told me he had been pain free since my one treatment, but he now had a bleeding stomach ulcer, and was off to consult yet another specialist.
I wonder if these patients were better off with their back pain?
Jim McGregor
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 2:38:00 PM
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OAK
Posts: 184
Joined: September 1, 2003
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"I lost 10 years of my youth. I can't get them back. But I can help others...
Can you say one thing (of those many) that was wrong and why?
Medical experts make mistakes all the time. For me many doctors and PTs said I have to buy a heel lift to compensate my leg lenght inequality. They didn't even check if it was functional inequality... and it was. Almost every time it is! Most PTs haven't even heard that there is such a thing as functional leg length difference... "
Looks like someone just had a MELTDOWN!
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 24, 2006 10:47:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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Joined: August 6, 2004
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There was quite a bit I was going to say but the short answer to expatient is, before telling everyone here what they do or don't know, why don't you do as SJ suggests and search the forum archives. This topic has come up many, many times. I even started a couple of them.
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 25, 2006 3:04:00 AM
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PTupdate.com
Posts: 1468
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
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expatient:
Last month, a woman here in Pittsburgh lost her husband and two of her triplets when I truck slammed into their family minivan.
In the past week, many US soldiers lost limbs and/or lives in Iraq
Somewhere around the city you live in, children will miss meals due to poverty, and quite a few spent the night under a bridge.
So, in the grand scheme of things: GET A GRIP
I am no psychologist, but the personality trait where someone has to "show you what I know" gets very annoying. You are too obsessed with this campaign to "enlighten the PT world"
I am a believer in certain SIJ dysfunctions, and have successfully treated these in the past. Yes, people are usually quite happy when you do something that 4 or 5 others could not fix. But just as every plumber can't figure out your problem, and not every mechanic can identify that engine knock, every PT cannot find and fix everything.
Move on
John Duffy, PT OCS
[URL=http://www.PTupdate.com]www.PTupdate.com[/URL]
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 25, 2006 9:18:00 PM
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expatient
Posts: 17
Joined: May 16, 2006
Status: offline
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I tried "search" and found no other threads on SIJD.
I tried to search SIJ and got some threads, but they talk basicly other stuff, except thas AS-thread.
AS comes from inflammation from SIJ. And it gets inflammated because of SIJD.
I even tried to searh posts by Randy's number, but with quickly peek I found nothing about SIJD or sacroiliac joint...
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 1:58:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1155
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
Status: offline
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...you need to look harder...
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 3:15:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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i so wish I checked this post earlier, I will just be quiet for now...
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 4:57:00 AM
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SJBird55
Posts: 2363
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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Ben, Ben, Ben... there is another post you can jump in on! The title begins with an L and ends with an I.... Makes me think of a song about an "L" on the forehead. LMAO
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 9:28:00 AM
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Yogi
Posts: 403
Joined: April 5, 2004
From: San Antonio, Tx., USA
Status: offline
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Well, ex, I for one thank you for the information. I'll bet you thought this would be a good place to pass it on. Physical therapists being the body mechanics. Now you probably feel like you're on the psychomechanic site.
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 5:16:00 PM
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srcase
Posts: 551
Joined: November 30, 2004
From: Michigan
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Jim,
Was your lumbar rotation perhaps a Waddell's test?
Sarah
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Re: BIG Medical mistake! - May 26, 2006 10:24:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
Posts: 744
Joined: August 6, 2004
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expatient is correct about the search engine not picking up any of the other threads about this. I couldn't find any of them using several search terms "malalignment" "SIJ" "Pelvic Rotation" "inominate rotation" and a few more,k including "kalindra" and "Don Tigny".
How about "Trust me, we've been there"?
You might enjoy reading "The Malalignment Syndrome", It is a book which makes the same case you are.
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