Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's?

Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (Full Version)

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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD -> Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 2:30:00 AM)
Dr. Paris asked for clinicians to "spread the word." I'm just surprised (read angered) that he appears to have decided to spread the word to those in the chiropractic profession before discussing it within his own profession of physical therapy. Any student or graduate of St. Augustine's traditional, hybrid, or t-DPT program want to chime in on their thoughts? Colleagues, We have now set the date for the meeting where the University of St. Augustine will host chiropractors interested in our plans to make a DPT degree available through a combination of online learning with weekend hands on seminars. The date is Saturday 6th in St. Augustine and at the University. There will be a reception at my home the night before at probably 6:00 pm. An agenda will be sent to you in advance as well as possibly some additional information. The day will no doubt begin with a questionnaire (no name required) and then launch into a description of the University and the DPT program We will certainly cover such items as "advanced standing, transfer credit etc." I shall be in attendance along with the director of the DPT program at the campus here in St.Augustine and the director of the program in Boca Raton where the seminars are held. The director of our online programming will also be present along with one or two others. We will schedule to meet till I suspect mid afternoon. There will be plenty of time for questions and discussion. At this point I would ask that you "spread the word" to your colleagues that might be interested. All email contacts will be to individual email addresses and not to all at once so that your interest and name is protected until of course we meet. I am aware that some of the recipients of this email are very enthusiastic the enter the program. Others may not be but simply wish to be informed without being associated. Hence the reason for not putting you all on one mailing list. I expect twenty to forty in attendance. The nearest airport is Jacksonville FL at one hour away, compared to Orlando which is two hour away. So reserve the date. More to follow. Stanley V. Paris PT., PhD., FAPTA President, University of St. Augustine, 1 University Blvd., St. Augustine, FL 32086 USA (904) 826-0084 Voice (800) 241-1027 Toll Free

ehanso -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 4:52:00 AM)
Is there any way to expell him from the APTA and remove his name from any awards or foundations he may be associated with?

jma -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 5:15:00 AM)
I'm sure this will, if not already, get his fellow colleagues' attention from the APTA.

JLS_PT_OCS -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 6:41:00 AM)
Well, certainly part of the DC profession, I think it was one of the Texas DC schools, was thinking of doing this for interested PTs, as a way of trying to bring the professions together. Of course it was shot down in anger by lots of folks. Before we react, here, maybe if we knew a little about his plans and such. Maybe there's more to this than we know. J

jma -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 7:08:00 AM)
Hmmm, I never heard of a Tx DC school ever offering the same for a PT. Was this recent or a while back? Would like to how that went in more detail. Thanks.

UTDC -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 8:10:00 AM)
Drew, I think you are misinformed. This is not a t-dpt program and it is not uncommon for PT programs to offer advanced standing to DC's.

drbuddy -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 8:11:00 AM)
Really, what it the problem with this program? From what I've read, it is going to be difficult to be accepted, requiring a good GRE score and a bacehlors degree. How is this any different than going to undergrad, then on to PT school? Any objections to this is purely professional 'racsim' (if that makes any sense,lol). It's not like Paris is offering the degree to the subluxtion whackos in our profession. Those types would never think of getting the DPT degree ayway. I personally see no need for the dual degree, but if I meet the requirments, what is the problem? Do you have a problem when ATCs and PTA's are given credit for some classes required by a PT program?

Andrew M. Ball PT PhD -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 3:30:00 PM)
I may very well be misinformed about the details, but it doesn't really change my point. Physical therapists, DPT's in particular, have a right to know what's going on BEFORE DC's do. It's OUR future that a lone wolf, who won't likely be in PT by the time 2020 rolls around, is playing with. My objection isn't to the program. It could be a good thing if done correctly. My objection is to the hush-hush cloak-and-dagger discussions. This is an issue for the education section of the APTA to discuss, and issue a position statement --- not one for a lone wolf to write his own rules. This program may have serious negative implications for the march toward clinical doctoring autonomy of physical therapists, before the DPT even has footing in American Healthcare. We as a profession have a right to know more, and to ask for the discussion to be brought out of the darkness and into the light. It WILL impact all of us if it goes through. I don't suggest panic, and I don't mean to suggest that anyone jump to conclusions --- but I DO mean to suggest that PT's, DPT's in particular, are owed more information --- and a theory as to how this program will impact vision 2020. Drew

connie.pt -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 3:59:00 PM)
I agree with drbuddy. From the above letter, it sounds like it's being kept "hush-hush" for the benefit of the chiros, who may not want it known that they might want to become a PT. Sure, there may be a lot of angry discussions, but if a chiro wants to use their skills AND be a PT, I don't see that as a problem for PTs, as long as the program has the depth and scope of traditional programs. (And it would have to, to be accredited). DC/PTs may find their new degree somewhat restrictive, from the viewpoint of doctor referrals needed for reimbursement, etc. The only 'negative' that I can think of in the viewpoint of a PT is that DC/DPTs may get more respect from the public who use chiro services.

Diane -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 5:18:00 PM)
[QUOTE]Physical therapists, DPT's in particular, have a right to know what's going on BEFORE DC's do. It's OUR future that a lone wolf, who won't likely be in PT by the time 2020 rolls around, is playing with.[/QUOTE]I agree with Drew. This seems fishy .. is money involved somehow? Also, who benefits from hush-hush? Cat's out of the bag. Chiros have blabbed about it publically already, if it was somehow meant to protect their tender selves from the embarrassment of getting a certificate to practice as a DPT. Chiros have a great deal to gain by acquiring PT standing. PT has nothing to gain by becoming chiro equivalent. Maybe the world in Michigan is different, Connie, but I can't think of anyone outside the ever-gullible and manipulable public, who would increase their opinion of PT as a result. Whatever goes on with this, I hope it remains confined to the US. Should chiro and DPT morph into each other, I think the mobilipulators should pick themselves a new name, leave the designation "physical/physiotherapy" for the rest of us. I suggest "Cartesiopractors" would be fitting.

jkmpt -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 5:47:00 PM)
Diane, I've always appreciated your responses, you always seem to make the most sense(I've read your how to start a practice posts) and your an intelligent person. However, I do think PT's would benefit from a PT/DC degree if the DC schools waived classes and gave advanced standing. In California PT's working in private practice are totally dependent on physcian referrals and the ever declining insurance reimbursement. DC's have name recognition and true direct access. I still believe the best scenario is a cash pay clinic not dependent on physician referral or insurance reimbursement, but this is difficult to achieve for the majority. I think becoming a DC in 1-2 years would facilitate this as opposed to getting my DPT. I think a PT with experience who has the privileges of a DC would be able to thrive. For me not being able to see people off the street and market myself directly to the public is a disadvantage. I hate trying to get physicians to refer patients. I look forward to the replies.

TLB -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 6:09:00 PM)
The only problem I would have to this is the transitional part. I thought you had to be a PT to get into a transitional DPT program, isn't that where the transitional part comes in? If you want to be a PT, go to PT school just like the rest of us, full time 2-3 year program after your prerequisites. To become a PT from another field on a transitional basis during the weekend just doens't cut it IMO. I can't believe that is the case with the APTA, but I could be wrong.

UTDC -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 6:31:00 PM)
Todd, As I said earlier it would appear that Paris is NOT offering a transitionnal program. Drew, what exactly is the issue you are having with this. This is a 12 trimester program, what exactly is there to discuss?......I think you all are getting way too worked up about a non-issue.

drbuddy -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 7:11:00 PM)
If you're going to get up on arms about DCs getting advanced standing toward a PT degree, then I assume you are all agaisnt PTAs and ATCs getting advanced standing? The objection is purely political in nature. At least admit to that. If I'm qualified to be accepted to a PT program and I have taken classes that are equivalent to some of the classes in the program, it is only natural that credits would be transferred to that program.

TLB -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 28, 2006 7:34:00 PM)
[QUOTE] The objection is purely political in nature. At least admit to that. If I'm qualified to be accepted to a PT program and I have taken classes that are equivalent to some of the classes in the program, it is only natural that credits would be transferred to that program. [/QUOTE]I agree. I think the issue would be transitional programs. As UTDC stated it's not a transitional program although I would like some clarification on that issue. Any info would be appreciated, I'll see what I can find.

scpt -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 29, 2006 5:51:00 AM)
Paris starts all of his seminars with a 30 minute cheelreading speech on the future of Physial Therapy and the need to grow into an a autonomous, direct access, respected profession. He is a VERY HUGE proponent of the growth of PT as a profession. I find it very hard to believe that he would be doing anything negative for the field of PT. Possibly I am just naive. Jim

matotoms -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 29, 2006 6:03:00 AM)
paris is an uber egomaniac, and a modern day snake oil saleman. a total hack, IMO.

drbuddy -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 29, 2006 6:49:00 AM)
From everything that I've read and what I understood from personal correspondance with Paris is, this program is a DPT program designed for those with a DC degree (and BS). Instead of trying to fit a DC into a standard DPT curriculum, this program is set up to account for the coursework that the DC has already completed. For instance, why should a DC have to retake classes in radiology, anatomy, palpation, diagnosis, neurophysiology, microbiology, biochemistry, pathology, etc.? It just doesnt make any sense.

GLASGOW -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 29, 2006 6:53:00 AM)
The matter may well all boil down to validation and money.The chiropractic physicians will lend credence to the degree and bring in welcome revenue.That is likely to be the bottom line. I doubt that there will be a rush of chiropractors applying for the course and somehow I think it will not go further than a wish list. We seem to forget that compared to PT's chiropractors are doing very very well as clinicians and businessmen.To be drawn to a DPT, it would need to be offering them something special which they do not already have.I think the potentially big winner in any such venture must be physiotherapy as the DPT would be given a lot more standing than it might ordinarily receive.Will it take off,very unlikely.

Diane -> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? (January 29, 2006 7:05:00 AM)
[QUOTE]The chiropractic physicians will lend credence to the degree and bring in welcome revenue[/QUOTE]Credence? What credence? I see the "welcome revenue" part of this statement as possibly more accurate...

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