|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's?
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 4:19:00 AM
|
|
|
dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
Status: offline
|
Maybe we should end the confusion and have someone edit the title of this post as it has been determined conclusively by Dr. Paris himself on the ************ listserve that this program is an entry level DPT program accredited by CAPTE and not in any way a t-dpt program. Drew, since you started all of this, both here and at ************, maybe you should make the change and post Dr. Paris' reply that appeared on ************ but not here.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 4:20:00 AM
|
|
|
dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
Status: offline
|
not my ******'s, somebody else's
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 6:29:00 AM
|
|
|
SJBird55
Posts: 2286
Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
Can you repeat what you said, Rick? Why are all the ****. What's getting bleeped out?!? Since I am like really confused... start whatever was * and skip a letter. LOL I'm lost!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 6:35:00 AM
|
|
|
dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
Status: offline
|
rehab manager
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 10:57:00 AM
|
|
|
Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
|
Once again, Dr. Paris is NOT exploring the kind of t-DPT program that most of us are familiar with, but it is, technically, a t-DPT in that it's an advanced standing entry-level DPT program. At issue is the impact that a DC/DPT may have on the profession. This person, upon graduation, would be viewed in a court of law as an "instant expert" with respect to questions of DPT direct access, DPT direct reimbursement, manipulation as performed by DPT's, etc. Is this really what we want to create? It will only take one DC/DPT more loyal to chiropractic than PT, that gets through Dr. Paris' radar, to cause MAJOR headaches for us all.
Furthermore, in some states such as Maryland, the term "physical therapy" is not protected. Do we REALLY want to give DC's the tools to give their claims that the scope of chiropractic fully envelopes the scope of physical therapy (which is, of course, untrue) political credence?
I think not.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 11:29:00 AM
|
|
|
UTDC
Posts: 221
Joined: December 21, 2003
Status: offline
|
[QUOTE]technically, a t-DPT in that it's an advanced standing entry-level DPT program.[/QUOTE]Just like all of the other P.T. programs that offer advanced standing. This program is no different, except that it can be done part time over a longer period.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 11:45:00 AM
|
|
|
ouch
Posts: 22
Joined: August 19, 2005
From: wv
Status: offline
|
Drew,How do you know the impact of the DC/DPT will be negative? I don't understand why chiropractors and physical therapists can't get along with each other. It seems we could accomplish more by banding together with mid-level providers so that insurance companies allow direct access and reimbursement similiar to physicians.
I think most DC/PT's or PT/DC's would work to improve both professions,not destroy one or the other,but obviously I can't speak for others.
Edward J. Priem DC,PT,DPT
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 7, 2006 4:27:00 PM
|
|
|
Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
|
Ouch,
I don't KNOW that the impact will be negative, but I don't KNOW that it will be positive either. Let me be clear on my concern . . . I don't argue with the need for Dr. Paris to explore a program like the one described --- but I don't think that he has the right to, in secret meeting, decide the professional issue for himself, or without consultation of CAPTE and the APTA. It is not, as he suggests, just another entry-level program.
To review, this is not an issue of which the APTA leadership was aware, but an issue of which many chiropractors and, I'm told, most of the ACA leadership was aware. My HOPE is that you're right, that combo professionals would work to elevate both professions, but that may not be the case, and one dual credentialed individual could do a lot of harm to either or both professions. Furthermore, in some states, a DC that completes the DPT program may not even have to sit for the boards to "practice" physical therapy. That sets up some problems for the profession of physical therapy doesn't it? As a dual degreed professional yourself, how would you suggest solving such a problem?
I don't think that an individual educator, even one as esteemed as Dr. Paris, has the right to decide who would be an appropriate DC to be admitted to such a program, and who would not. I think this is a special case for CAPTE to examine, and should be treated as such. I maintain that the potenial pros, and potential cons, discussed in OPEN FORUM, not behind closed doors.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 4:22:00 AM
|
|
|
jbeneciuk
Posts: 112
Joined: November 26, 2004
From: Jacksonville, FL
Status: offline
|
In a message dated 1/30/2006 2:38:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, sparis@usa.edu writes:
WHAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN CLEAR IS THAT THIS IS NOT A T-DPT BUT A 12 SEMESTER DPT FOR POST BACCALAUREATE - AN ENTRY LEVEL PROGRAM
I would appreciate this response being posted to anyone who has heard of the meeting that we are planning to have with chiropractors interested in transitioning to a DPT degree. For a start we are not the only school looking at this issue and the other program has been looking at it longer than us. While I have historically fought chiropractic, no doubt more than any other therapist, and have spent quite a few dollars and much time in the process being sued by them etc. both in New Zealand and the United States, I have always felt that out best defense was to strengthen our own profession and defend against incursions by them while at the same time not speaking ill of them.
Basically chiropractors are of three groups. The super straight, straight and those using EBP. Most schools are tending towards the straight to EBP model but most students are in the super straight and straight schools. There is a growing realization in chiropractic that EBP is the way reimbursement and practice is going and that where they need to be. The schools might be less concerned than the clinicians. But today's EBP chiropractor, is at least in the musculoskeletal area, not too far removed from physical therapy practices. Given that five years after graduation only 50% are practicing as chiropractors there are a great number that have left the profession for whatever reason(s).
We already have one DC in our 12 semester online and weekend lab DPT program based in Boca Raton. He is taking all the courses and not clepping out or transferring credits in any way. He is a student in every sense. We are calling the meeting to which you refer to look at all the issues involved in allowing these persons to become PTs. Culture is foremost and so is EBP. Paying attention to those aspects I b believe we will find many a candidate that will make an ideal DPT. Today, sociologists predict that most young people will have three careers. I am sure that if a DC wishes to become a DPT such a career move will serve them well and serve well those in need of their services.
Do consider that if the likes of Richard Erhard PT., DC who has worked and researched with Tony Delitto as well as being a founding member of AAOMPT and the first president of IFOMT (International Federation of Orthopaedic Manipulative Therapists), then while there might not be other Dr. Erhards there are still many fine DC's that would make excellent DPTs. We are just considering the process in reverse. Likewise both chiropractors and physical therapists have applied to and be accepted into medical schools. So I have difficulty in seeing what the problem is. We certainly are not teaching them seminars. We have never knowingly admitted a chiropractor to our seminars.
There is no political agenda here but I am sure some will read such into it. There certainly is no "selling out." Any candidate must meet our usual criteria for admission including interviews. Our program has rigor and does graduate an excellent DPT. Personally I feel that I am in good position to both listen to and be understanding of the cultural differences and will assure my profession that should we continue to admit DCs they will be cultured into physical therapy. We are calling a meeting and have made no firm decisions beyond that. We are proceeding slowly and cautiously. Additionally I am aware of my position in this profession and I feel my actions are wholly consistent with that position.
Thank you for your request for information.. Best wishes.
Stanley
Stanley V. Paris PT., PhD., FAPTA
President, University of St. Augustine,
1 University Blvd.,
St. Augustine, FL 32086
USA
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 6:04:00 AM
|
|
|
paulpt
Posts: 164
Joined: May 31, 2005
Status: offline
|
Andrew: very interesting take on the issue as it relates to Maryland. Currently some DCs can proclaim they perform Physical Therapy if they passed that special portion of the board exam.
If a DC with PT privelege can get a DPT, can s/he proceed to practice as a PT... bound by the practice act of the Board of PT Examiners for state of Maryland, without a valid PT license? This will be mentioned at the next state meeting. Seems like something we should at least bring up and prepare for.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 7:36:00 AM
|
|
|
ouch
Posts: 22
Joined: August 19, 2005
From: wv
Status: offline
|
Drew, I agree that such programs should be reviewed by CAPTE and the APTA. I also feel that the DC's in Maryland should have to pass the national exam and obtain their PT license in Maryland before they are allowed to advertise as such.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 7:39:00 AM
|
|
|
drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
|
I guess you would have to determine what it out of the scope of a DC that is within the PT scope. For instance, I would think a DC DPT would need to be licensed as a PT to perform things like wound care.
With insurance reimbursement, to get paid as a PT you would need to be licensed as a PT.
Actually, for the most part, the reimbursement is more of a issue than scope of practice since DCs can performs most of the same procedures as a PT.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 2:11:00 PM
|
|
|
dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
Status: offline
|
Drew, are you suggesting that Dr. Paris might somehow be able to restrict someones entrance into his program simply because they are a chiropractor, how would that fly, if they meet the entry requirements they get in, simple as that, just like an ATC, DO, OT, MD, anyone else who met entry requirements, just like a DC can apply to and get in any other entry level DPT program out there, I still dont get why this is such an issue for you.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 8, 2006 2:13:00 PM
|
|
|
dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
Status: offline
|
JBen, thanks for posting Dr. Paris's reply, hope things are good with you. Long time no post
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 5:24:00 AM
|
|
|
TLB
Posts: 346
Joined: September 13, 2002
From: Arizona
Status: offline
|
OK, I'm still confused. Is this proposed program a DC only program devised to transition them (although they really aren't using the word transition) to DPT status or is this a basic entry level program that is being marketed to DC's but everyone is allowed to apply? If everyone is allowed to apply to this program and it's entry level then there shouldn't be a problem IMO, but somehow I don't believe that's the case. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
_____________________________
Todd
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 11:00:00 AM
|
|
|
drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
|
IMO, it looks like this:
It is an entry level program designed specifically for DCs. Instead of giving advanced standing to DCs for certain classes and trying to plug them into a standard program, this program is designed specifically with those classes in mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 11:10:00 AM
|
|
|
jbeneciuk
Posts: 112
Joined: November 26, 2004
From: Jacksonville, FL
Status: offline
|
The USA program is not designed specifically for DCs. If that were the case I could understand. Rick proposed a good analogy previously....Could a chiropractic school prevent me as a PT from entering their program?
Least we forget the advances that Dr. Paris and others have made possible for our profession, especially with manual physical-therapy. It's quite interesting how quickly some of us just jump the gun and assume the worst...
JBeneciuk
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 12:11:00 PM
|
|
|
Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
|
I don't think that anyone here is assuming the worst, nor is anyone forgetting the work that Dr. Paris has done for the profession. The only thing that I personally object to, is the cloak of darkness, and attempts to shield the program from knowledge of APTA leadership. This program, and programs like it COULD impact vision 2020, maybe in a positive way, but maybe in a negative way. It is therefore in the interests of all DPT's who plan to be practicing as fully autonomous interdependent doctors, for the program to develop under full disclosure.
Let's not forget that in some states, a DC who completes such a program doesn't have to take the PT board exam to claim to be a physical therapist, to bill for PT services, and then go on to say, should they ever be charged by a board of PT examiners, that they were not doing physical therapy --- but rather chiropractic rehab --- claiming that physical therapy is, and should be legally considered, nothing more than hotpacks and ultrasound.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 1:55:00 PM
|
|
|
TLB
Posts: 346
Joined: September 13, 2002
From: Arizona
Status: offline
|
So nobody really knows if it's a DC only program except for Paris. Is this correct?
_____________________________
Todd
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? - February 9, 2006 2:15:00 PM
|
|
|
jbeneciuk
Posts: 112
Joined: November 26, 2004
From: Jacksonville, FL
Status: offline
|
Todd:
It is not a DC only program...
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
0.094
|
Printable Version
All Forums >> [RehabEdge Forum] >> Open Forum >> Re: Paris to offer t-DPT to DC's? 
