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Re: Last Post
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 5:13:00 AM
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David Adamczyk
Posts: 305
Joined: March 14, 1999
From: Cleveland
Status: offline
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RehabEdge was surprised to see Barrett leave the Forum. RehabEdge offered Barrett his own private Forums. Access to Barrett's Forums would not be limited by anyone at RehabEdge, it would be solely Barrett's decision to give members acces to his Forum(s). We made a decision that would serve all members and keep mudslinging out of the RehabEdge Forum.
We appreciate your comments and understand how you might perceive the situation based on what facts are available to the public. There is so much more behind this event, however, I would rather take a beating in this Forum than share all of the facts.
Challenging ideas is what this site is all about. Mudslinging is not. The Barrett vs. SJBird was a major distraction on this website. The topic of their conflict has been the same for over 12 months.
Regarding the accusation that RehabEdge has censored member's posts, please view SJBirds thread regarding her deleted posts. RehabEdge did not delete those posts.
In the past, we have deleted personal attacks - we have never deleted a post that challenges ideas related to physical therapy practice.
We have done our best to keep the discussions flowing and reduce the mudslinging. It is out of our hands now.
By the way, Bernard, if you want some insight into how YOU were banned from RehabEdge, just send me an email and I'll tell you all about it.
Dave
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 5:21:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
Status: offline
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so, where are the nachos? I am starving.
Ben
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 5:32:00 AM
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johngoodrich
Posts: 20
Joined: December 6, 2005
Status: offline
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Thanks, Dave. And I apologize for my own mudslinging.
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 10:50:00 AM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1708
Joined: April 24, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
Status: online
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[QUOTE]We appreciate your comments and understand how you might perceive the situation based on what facts are available to the public. There is so much more behind this event [/QUOTE]Here we have an outstanding example, as if there are not enough of them in society already, of how limiting access to information can make people misperceive a situation. Why add one more example? If it is truly the SJ vs. Barrett issue I don't see that limiting viewership to Barrett's writing as consistent with that concern since everyone knows the source of that specific conflict is not Barrett himself. Your recent edit of one of his posts and concern about serving the industry contrasted with Barrett's concern about servitude to the industry seems a much more plausible explanation of events. But I suppose I'll not know nor is it likely my business. I'm clearly upset and writing my point of view at least feels a bit better.
Dave, I loved what you built here, the ghost of christmas past. I hope you can hang on to ideals. Your willingness to "take a beating" as well as not deleting this thread gives me hope.
_____________________________
[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 12:54:00 PM
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freetomove
Posts: 46
Joined: October 17, 2003
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Status: offline
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There is little of use here beyond standard fare without the insights that Barrett's reflections and the many thinkers that have chosen to join him here provide. Whatever your reasons may have been, your decision was misguided.
Perhaps stimulating dialogue about McKenzie Diagnosis or Prediction Rules will fill the void, but I doubt it. All the graduate degrees and continuing education will never make PT more than a bunch of technicians without critical thinking and creative solutions. This forum will become a black hole with little more than SJ's echo. Enjoy!
Nick Matheson
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Re: Last Post - December 24, 2005 11:33:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
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Sometimes separation is a good thing, it's what cells do when growth is about to occur. Perhaps it's high time Barrett bailed. Locking his contribution into some basement room here, where you need a key to get in, would have been ridiculous.
As a non-US PT, I look at the forces grinding away at and within PT in the US, and (apart from thanking my lucky stars that I don't live in your country) I can see PT being pulled apart on more than just this one level, at this discussion forum with Barrett's exit. Without Barrett this site will be deleted from my bookmarks. I will leave it to all the chiros, orthopractors, mobilipulators, pediculators, outcome fanatics and how-to-make-a-buck people, all the people whose main concern is how to keep that mouth firmly around that insurance mammary.
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 3:06:00 AM
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january
Posts: 70
Joined: January 3, 2005
Status: offline
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Well Dave,
I asked last year about my continual banning and have no reply since!
Dave you missed once more to convince me and Readers!
BTW, I made an internal peace about my personal problem with Barrett and found that I was wrong.
It is why I offered the freedom of speech he needed.
Goodbye.
Bernard
Admin of Soma-Simple forums.
ps: You have already my email since you tried some ridiculous intimidations about redirected links.
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 4:41:00 AM
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PTupdate.com
Posts: 1478
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
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I get the feeling that RE is now going to be the bar that was once "hip", but all the cool people trucked a few blocks down to different places. Instead of having a very special group of people here at one place, they will be scattered around, making it harder to relive the same experience. This site was the reason I did not put a bulletin board system on my own site...I felt this and NOI were good enough to stand on their own.
David...you may have made a mistake that will affect your site. Things have grown here with the advertisement of courses, etc. With a lot of good people leaving, it will be harder to develop a good base of posters again.
And for those who were somehow upset or "distracted" by Barret and SJ bickering...get a friggin grip.
Goodbye Barrett
John Duffy, PT OCS
[URL=http://www.PTupdate.com]www.PTupdate.com[/URL]
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 9:45:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
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RehabEdge,
Several years ago, Barrett and I found a website of scarcely more than 200 members. As I recall, one of the reasons that people were drawn to the site were the evidence-based critiques of specific techniques and the occasional sparring matches that would occur between either he,I (or one of a handful of others), and the author of a study or peddler or a specific CEU course.
Usually, it was kept professional and evidence-based, but it certainly kept authors and CEU peddlers (myself included) on their toes. A new and unique burden for authors and CEU providers? Perhaps, but not one that will self-resolve with the departure of Barrett.
Newer graduates are different nowadays than they had been 10 years or 20 years ago. They ARE sharper, they ARE more evidence-based, they ARE less likely to be roped into clinically ineffective fads like CranioSacral Therapy or Facilitated Communication. Older graduates are, well, more experienced --- and less likely to be fooled as well. To imply that other CEU providers won't work with RehabEdge because of Barrett's questioning nature often conflicts with and subverts a salesman selling an unproven or useless clinical technique is not only an insult to Barrett, but an insult to the professional development that has occured within our profession over the past 10 to 20 years. Barrett has simply been made a convenient scape-goat for the fact that new graduates can't be as easily fooled into pointless CEU courses, and that it's harder to make a living selling "snake-oil" in physical therapy than it used to be. Shame on you David. Shame on you Randy. Maybe it will take a few more years of experience on your parts to realize that this change is actually a GOOD thing for our profession, and that Barrett can not only take responsibility for it, but cannot be made responsible for how much harder it makes selling CEU's either. In the meantime, you've surely lost a loyal and effective promoter of your site, and by loosing so many members (and hits) over this issue, you're surely to become less attractive to CEU providers.
To suggest that viewers of your site can't differentiate between valuable topics and useless topics (regardless of who posts them), is an insult to the very users of your site who have made RehabEdge successful --- and have attracted advertising dollars to your site in the first place. As it so happens, now you find RehabEdge members leaving in droves --- threatening the advertising dollars you're chasing. That doesn't sound like a particularly bright business decision guys! Users came here for candid discussion, not a CEU ad clearinghouse. Anyone who wanted the latter could simply go to PT Bullien online. By killing what brings people to RehabEdge, you risk killing what made it attractive to CEU providers in the first place. Not smart guys. Not smart at all.
Let's also be clear about RehabEdge's proposed solution. Asking Barrett to moderate a forum in the fashion proposed would have made the content posted by he or any other participant his responsiblity, certainly in terms of the time commitment, and perhaps in terms of legal responsibility for ALL comments made on the forum --- regadless of who initially made them. If RehabEdge wasn't willing to put in the time to moderate their forums --- despite the FREE intellectual property provided, why should anyone else!?!?!?
Given the loyalty afforded by RehabEdge to such a pillar of the site, here since its inception, in the days that follow, I too will re-assess my relationship with RehabEdge, as my history of working to build the site would appear to be of significantly less value to the RehabEdge owners than previously communicated. In closing, I would agree that there seems to be far too much censorship of thought and words here for me to find much that intrigues me anymore. That's not what RehabEdge was at its inception.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 3:16:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
Status: offline
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this is probably the most drama of self important people I have ever witnessed that was not fictional. I think Melrose Place its last three seasons was close to this, but the self inflated egoism and self rightousness in these posts is making me throw up in my mouth a little bit. all of you get over yourselves. Who really knows what happened, and hwo really cares. If you want his posts so much, find them elsewhere, are ALL of you who are joining in on the self rightous bandwagon alumnis of his courses, I mean you hold him on such a pedastal I hope you all have your barrett CEUs. I am not sure how I feel about someone being forced out of here, though I feel he left on his own accord. All I know is that this is way too much sappy drama and threats for even the holiday season. Everyone get some eggnog, refocus, and use rehabedge for the forums it has and enough already. No need to rub salt on a wound or to give eulogies here, it is a done deal, dead post, lock it up, and put the children to bed. Hapy Holidays EVERYONE even the ones who will no longer be reading because we got their underbritches in a bunch.
Go PATS, go UCONN, good riddens johnny damon, and hello 80 degrees!
Love,
Ben
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 3:38:00 PM
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nari
Posts: 1568
Joined: November 14, 2003
From: Australia
Status: offline
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Hi Ben
Unfortunately there is little left on RE to interest anyone who wishes to be more than a slave to EBP and orthopaedics. Scott and Nick said it in a nutshell.
To each his/her own preferences.
Everyone will be happier when the dust settles, and that is a good outcome, probably, for all.
Nari
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 4:26:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
Status: offline
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i love that EBM and prthopedics are taboo, kind of funny to me, but whatever. Good fortune, good luck, happy healing, and best wishes to you in all of your future endeavors, our lack of contact will be surely missed. but like you said to each their own, I do not think we'll be worse off, but what do I know, I practice orthopedics and EMB. But I know where to find you all if I ever want a good esoteric debate, have a great new years,
Ben
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 4:33:00 PM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1708
Joined: April 24, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
Status: online
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Loved the post and advice Ben. You surely are the bright future of rehabedge. I'll make sure to stop my quest for being a little more righteous and follow your example on not knowing how I feel about things and caring even less.
_____________________________
[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Last Post - December 25, 2005 5:13:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
Status: offline
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perfect...and that's one more converted, and only a handful more to go...muhahahah
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Re: Last Post - December 26, 2005 8:27:00 AM
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PTupdate.com
Posts: 1478
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
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I never went to one of Barrett's courses, rarely read any of his posts on the site, and often did not agree with his opinions on matters. I once even thought of taking the 1.5 hour drive to Akron to hit him when I thought he took a verbal jab at me on a thread.
However, his leaving the site bothers me. I enjoyed the mental challenge he provided and the manner in which he caused me to look at things in a different way. Even his erudite manner and verse made me say to myself "sh_t, I gotta READ more", the same as when I read conversations with Robert Hunter. Barrett leaving the site does reduce the usefulness of the site, and others will follow him out the door, adversely affecting my continual education.
And Ben.....it looks as though we may play (and beat) the Pats in the playoffs. Now it's time for me to hit the garage, smoke a Kuba Kuba and start some drywallin'
John Duffy, PT OCS
[URL=http://www.PTupdate.com]www.PTupdate.com[/URL]
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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Re: Last Post - December 26, 2005 8:47:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
Status: offline
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lol, another steelers beatdown by the pats? cannot wait..see you on the gridiron!
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Re: Last Post - December 26, 2005 7:06:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
Posts: 744
Joined: August 6, 2004
Status: offline
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Hey Drew,
Just curious, but why did I rate a "shame on you"?
What you posted made no sense in light of what I wrote.
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Re: Last Post - December 27, 2005 2:03:00 AM
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treybien
Posts: 85
Joined: August 5, 2002
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
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It's sad to see the old " a few bad apples " adage come into play. It seems to me this is the case but as a casual follower here I am sure I don't know all the info
Surely Barrett's contributions will be sorely missed.
The whole thing seems quite sad, people being kicked out and banned. Since we are quoting movies "Can't we all just git along?"
Merry Christmas and Happy all other Holidays, Ryan
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Re: Last Post - December 27, 2005 3:07:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
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Randy,
I will post once the topic, and then I have no interest in airing this further in public forum:
In the early stages, Barrett, myself, and a handful of others helped to build the site's mass appeal. Article reviews, CEU reviews, hand-holding people wanting to learn how to do evidence-based MEDLINE searches, specifics on pediatric evaluations, developmental kinesiology, and handling techniques. What did Barrett, myself, or the other originators get? Not so much as a "Thank You" beyond initial telephone discussions several years ago about ownership/partnership. Heck, I've not been able to get into the peds or evidence-based forums to moderate them in 2+ years.
It seems to me that as the profession is becoming more savvy, as fewer and fewer clinicians succomb to the "snake oils" of PT. Some CEU courses are taking a hit now because they never should have survived this long to begin with. That's a function of better informed, more evidence-based, new graduates than 10 years ago --- not a function of Barrett, my, and a handful of other's questioning and critiques. The conflict of interests is unfortunate, but to place the responsiblity for CEU providers frustrations upon Barrett is inappropriate, and disloyal to someone who helped create the very opportunities that you and David now enjoy --- for doing EXACTLY what it is that is now a thorn in the side of your business.
Furthermore, and I want to make this clear, I DO agree that something needed to be done to moderate the banter between Barrett, SJ, and a few others. I just don't think that Barrett was the problem in those situations, nor do I think that making him responsible for the content of a forum (a huge time burden, and potential legal burden) was a fair thing to even ask --- considering that neither David A. nor Randy M. were willing to do so --- and considering that they've no problem collecting financially from the freely given intellectual property of others.
Now they want to promote yourselves as innocent bystanders of Barrett's decision to leave?
I thought it was pretty clear. RehabEdge had philosophical differences regarding both human resource value, and how to deal with a bad business situation. Seems to me that everyone involved could have worked this out better --- and seems to me that you two (David A. and Randy M.) could stand to have slighly longer memories.
Shame on you two for that, and shame on Barrett too --- he should have given you both a little more slack secondary to your lack of experience in these matters. Seems to me that ya'll owe each other some apologies.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
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