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Re: Soap for RLS
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 8:41:00 AM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Sorry, big time chiropractic proprietary secret. They teach us that as we go through the first semester brainwashing...
: )
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 9:14:00 AM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Ok, you twisted my arm.
There is a natural substance called 5-hydroxytryptophan. It's a precursor to seretonin, and seretonin is used by the body to produce melatonin. It's safer to use than straight up melatonin because you can become dependant on melatonin.
Sufficient amounts of seretonin also helps elevate mood and decrease cravings.
Dosage is different for everyone and you need to start low and work your way up to the right dose. There is a specific protocol, but it's a little too much to get into here.
Disclaimer - only use 5-HTP under supervision of a trained professional. Many medications can interact with this substance and various health conditions may cause a person to react differently to it.
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 9:21:00 AM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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LOL, I didnt see your post, Jason, until after I sent my last one.
No, I dont use any of those methods.
Nutrition is slowly becoming a bigger part of my practice out of necessity. I'm finding a lot of undernourished, overweight people with multiple health problems. I try to straighten out their diet as much as possible, but I usually end up recommending a few different supplements. There is quite a bit of research out there supporting the use of at least a multivitamin. I also recommend taking in 2-4 grams of omega 3's per day, 1-2 grams of vitamin C per day, 2-3 grams of glucosamine per day for people over 30, and 800-1000 mg of calcium and magnesium per day.
I have been researching vit D lately and I might throw that into the mix too. One studied showed 90%+ of subjects with chronic MSK pain had a vit D deficiency. Pain was improved after 2 months of supplementation.
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 9:57:00 AM
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OaksPT
Posts: 124
Joined: November 19, 2003
From: Va
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drbuddy,
Thanks for the response, I have seen quite a few of the studies on the herbals used for depression/insomnia. You're right, many of our patients need nutritional counseling, some of their complaints they see us for, may have a marked contribution from other system deficits. But, Nutritionist is not a hat I have been trained to wear, I usually refer these people out. Or I just tell them to watch the Biggest Loser/Oprah. :)
Scott
_____________________________
Scott Oaks PT,DPT
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 11:03:00 AM
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hmgross
Posts: 292
Joined: February 28, 2003
From: Minnesota
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Sheesh,
I guess the saying should be: Never discuss religion, politics, or homeopathy!
_____________________________
Holly Gross PT
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 12:37:00 PM
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Barrett
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Joined: July 28, 1999
From: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
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Rather than go the chemical route, I've long felt that a primary reason people in pain have difficulty sleeping is autonomically based.
Gellhorn and Koizumi both point out that muscular nociception enhances parasympathetic increase, which is akin to sleep. Nervous irritation however enhances sympathetic dominance and this is what keeps people awake. When people can't sleep I assume this isn't a problem of muscular pain at all, so I make no effort to treat that organ.
Anyway, if the problem was muscular, why would it last beyond a few days. DOMS behaves that way, doesn't it?
Maybe this soap thread can turn into something useful.
_____________________________
Barrett L. Dorko P.T.
http://barrettdorko.com
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 1:14:00 PM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1709
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From: Amherst, WI
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[URL=http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7063/full/nature04285.html]Clues to the function of mamalian sleep.[/URL]
jon
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[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 1:40:00 PM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Barret, I agree, but it becomes the chicken and the egg argument.
Chronic sympathetic stimulation can cause a deficiency in a number of areas, one being certain hormones and neurotransmitters. Lack of sleep places even more stress on the body, perpetuating the sympathetic stimulation and decreasing production of certain hormones such as seretonin. I aim to replenish these depleted nutrients allowing the body to function a little better.
I may have forgot to mention, I do not just use supplementation to improve sleep. I'll also make the standard suggestions of avoiding stimulants, dim the lights at night, dont watch TV in bed, get some exercise early in the day, etc.
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 2:12:00 PM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
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From: Pennsylvania
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"Anyway, if the problem was muscular, why would it last beyond a few days. DOMS behaves that way, doesn't it?"
Oh, totally missed that part of the post.
I'm not so sure muscle pain from lack of sleep is due to anything going on with the muscle itself. I think it has more to do with the way the body percieves or suppresses pain.
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 4:45:00 PM
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nari
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From: Australia
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dr buddy
May I make a minor correction? I think it has everything to do with the way the brain perceives or suppresses pain. The muscles simply 'do' as they are told...don't they?
Nari
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Re: Soap for RLS - November 15, 2005 5:09:00 PM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Good point. I stand corrected.
However...
I think I read somewhere about how the spinal cord and even other cells of the body play a big part in emotion. Bruce Lipton might have been the researcher's name. The stuff was a little out there and I didnt really get into it too deeply.
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