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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 5:39:00 AM
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vt2c1ms
Posts: 74
Joined: May 9, 2005
From: Kansas
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Jason,
How did the quackopractic--I mean chiropractic treatment go for your patient with low back pain?
Mark
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 7:05:00 AM
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UTDC
Posts: 222
Joined: December 21, 2003
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Wow, this thread certainly has taken a turn. Chris, I hear you regarding the family, etc., I'm sure something will come along. I don't think that you are treading to lightly regarding your situation, you have a right to be upset.
Jeff
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 7:13:00 AM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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Jeff, you sound like this side of chiro is news to you.
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 7:46:00 AM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Sorry Rick, I would have to disagree with you. I have never talked to a chiro that said they are using that term for marketing purposes to attract new patients. Having been through chiro school and a part of this profession, I honestly think it is, for the most part, just a misunderstanding. There may be some chiros out there using the term for that purpose, but I dont believe it describes the majority.
The 120 hours you speak of, I missed that part. Was that the requirements to obtain the physiotherapy board certification? If so, they probably are referring to the number of hours chiros must take in order to be eligable to sit for the exam. Those classes include modalities, therapeutic and rehabillitative exercise, stretching, soft tissue mobilization techniques, retraining movement patterns, etc.
Why is it called physiotherapy? I have no idea. I have no idea when that term originated in our profession. I'll have to see if I can track down Joe Keating's email. He is a chiropractic historian and he may have some answers.
As for the Arkansas case, I agree that it is a slighty different situation. The PT was not just using improper terminology, but performed a procedure that was out of their scope of practice, right?
Diane, this has been a decent and civil discussion. It appears that you have some other problem with chiropractic. If you must talk about it, please start another thread and let's not take this one too far off course.
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 8:18:00 AM
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UTDC
Posts: 222
Joined: December 21, 2003
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Once again Diane, you attribute the behavior of Chris's collegues to the profession as a whole ie "this side" of chiropractic. I agree this is wrong, the question is, does it represent the rule or the exception? Being one involved in chiropractic practice standards and peer review, I say that it is the exception. If a DC is attempting to trick a patient into thinking that they are a PT, the PT board should be all over this- can you imagine if a chiro tried to pass himself off as a MD/DO?
I agree Kid, Krager, Sebastian, et al that the problem stems from soft definitions of physical therapy and a lack of action on the part of your professional organizations.
As to your comment of "this side" of chiropractic, I can assure you that all professions have "sides." I will grant you that questionable practices are more common in chiropractic than others- I attribute this to most DC's also being small business owners. I have seen outright quackery in your profession, beyond just the questionsable practices such as "craniosacral" etc. I have also seen a fair amount of fradulent billing practices. The difference is that I attribute this to some bad practitioners, not a bad profession.
Jeff
PS- Just last week, I got solicited by a local PT who performs "detoxification" and "mayan massage," are you familiar with this side of your profession?
---Now back to the topic at hand---
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 8:43:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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Mark-
Thanks for asking, the manipulation went fine. He felt much better.
I didn't feel a need to call what I do that of another profession.
Many patients even ask "is that chiropractic" or "are you a chiropractor?" which is a well-earned point for the public relations team on the chiro "side" of the musculoskeletal house. (nice job, guys) They have had a clearer vision about marketing than we for some time. Of course, I respond with a short reminder that I'm a PT, not a DC and that we are trained differently. Now on to your rehab program...
Failure to respect professional boundaries is not "blaming" it's calling people on practices they know better than to engage in.
It's the 21st century, folks. I can't agree with those that say it's accidental or he/she didn't mean it.
Let's turn it around. Can I say I provide Athletic Training if I'm not an athletic trainer? Regardless of the state law, I don't want people getting ATCs and PTs confused, I don't want to misrepresent myself. So I don't use that term. Whether it's legal and whether it's professional are two different things.
While I don't agree, I can understand the other point, which is if the shoe seems like it fits and it's not illegal, then go for it.
I feel that's not setting the standards very high, though. Certainly that sort of reasoning is behind the dark side practices of both our professions. And it's something none of us should support.
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 9:08:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1206
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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Jason, please understand that I am NOT liking the use of "physical therapy" by any other professional than a PT - but "blaming" the others for something that we have failed to protect is a bit backwards IMO. I guess I'm very biased since I'm not in a country where physiotherapists are called physical therapists - I might feel more like you if that were the case...
I still try at times to have the Association revisit the issue with legislators, and have even talked to a Federal Minister (not Health :-( ) about the issue, but so far....the key problem is the definition.
With regards to marketing, I have met (a few)local chiros who have used the terms to enhance their marketing - I didn't like it, but only WE can change it; I do not expect another profession to just "drop it". Yes, it says a bit about their lack of collegiality when I point out to them that it might be confusing to the public, they shrug, but that's it.
Quite a few more in "my" city have not EVER used the term in their marketing and descriptions of their practice.
_____________________________
Mundi vult decipi
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 10:14:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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I agree with your underlying point, Seb, that this is probably more a reflection of our failure to legislate others more aggressively.
The failure is more ours than theirs, I acknowledge that.
Jeff-
Should I stop putting Mayan Massage on my business cards? Don't knock it till you try it...
:)
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 10:26:00 AM
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UTDC
Posts: 222
Joined: December 21, 2003
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Jason,
[QUOTE] Should I stop putting Mayan Massage on my business cards? Don't knock it till you try it...[/QUOTE]I could buy that, it sounds kind of nice. It was the colonics that she wanted to give all of our chronic pain patients that I would have to take a pass on. LOL.
Jeff
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 8, 2005 11:08:00 AM
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Sean Weatherston
Posts: 102
Joined: August 3, 2005
From: Idaho
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Great, I get to follow up the message with 'colonics' in it...lucky me....
Back to the original question...how long has this PT practice act in Arizona been law? If it's new, maybe it's a matter of time before the chiropractors that claim they perform 'PT' or 'pt' change their tune. Or maybe just a matter of time before the AZ-APTA finds the right case to take to court to defend the practice act.
Anyone remember the lawsuit in Pennsylvania a few years back? Seemed like that was a tide changing ruling in protecting the terminology.
Sean, PT, OCS
_____________________________
Sean Weatherston, PT, OCS, CSCS
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 9, 2005 11:20:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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Jeff-
I believe that's the Aztec Colonic Massage you speak of.
I think I have the citation for it's use in chronic pain, wait a second...oh, must have left it back home at the pyramid.
:)
Sean-
I was in PA at the time of the decision, I believe I thought that decision would be much more influential than it turned out to be. But a good model to follow, that's for sure.
Sometimes it's annoying we have rules for each state, but then I think: hey, imagine if everywhere was Arkansas. This would be bad for many reasons. :)
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: State Practice Act & Use of Titles - August 11, 2005 8:34:00 AM
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TMondale
Posts: 131
Joined: January 3, 2005
From: Newton-Wellelsley Hospital
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We've been through this before. It is at best professionally indefensible, and at worst criminal disregard to the very people we should be protecting here; the patients. They can be excused for their confusion, chiropractors using the label of physical therapy for anything they do cannot be excused. Regardless of whether PT is a legally protected term or not it is a profession with all the rights and responsibilities of a licensed professional.
These chiropractors that try to pass off this notion that that's what they call it in school and it's done without contradictory intent, are truly in denial. Maybe you can't control your profession, but you can sure change this within yourselves.
Tim
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