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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 3, 2005 8:13:00 AM
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TLB
Posts: 353
Joined: September 13, 2002
From: Arizona
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mt,
Very few states have true direct access. Texas is considered a DA state by the APTA but actually it really isn't true direct access, you can eval someone without MD referral but are not allowed to treat until they have seen a physician. The revised bill in this legislative session never made it out of committee thanks to the AMA.
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Todd
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 3, 2005 1:36:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
Posts: 744
Joined: August 6, 2004
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MT,
You seem to have misunderstood my argument. My argument is the same as yours. That there is a huge pool of potential clients, but they aren't beating down the doors of PT clinics or bothering their insurance company because PT's largely have ignored them. Instead they have focused on trying to achieve DA the opposite way, working through the establishment to get to the patient.
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 4, 2005 2:50:00 AM
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dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
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Randy, I disagree. I do have pts. beating down the doors to get to me, the frustration comes when I tell them that for me to see them they need a referral from a physician! They ask why they can go to the massage therapist or the chiro down the street without a referral and I have to tell them that because they are on medicare and I am a medicare provider I can't even charge them directly if the service they want is billable under the medicare system. Screwy isn't it.
Rick
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 4, 2005 5:39:00 AM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: online
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So what are the options? Give up your lisence? Could you promote yourself as a practitioner (something generic) who once upon a time had PT training (ex-PT?)? Could you get out from between the rock and the hard place that way and enjoy direct access? Maybe PTs who want to be free could invent a new profession with a new name and just exit the nightmare. Set up a shop and start seeing the paying customers outside the system. "Autonomy Therapy"..? That might work for both the therapist and what the therapist aims to help the patient achieve.
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 4, 2005 3:04:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
Posts: 744
Joined: August 6, 2004
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Rick,
very screwy. I think we are all are in agreement on that. Are PT's PT's 24 hrs. a day. Can they moonlight as other than PT's? We have a PT/MD here who works PRN for PT while he is doing his medical residency.
Jason,
What practice act do you practice under? Are you able to practice outside of the military in the state or place you are in?
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 5, 2005 9:36:00 PM
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goodlooks58
Posts: 425
Joined: October 21, 2002
From: CA
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As I have said in my earlier thread...Direct Access in it's truest sense is the key to freedom. Yes..freedom has it's downfalls: our malpractise may increase and some PTs will make mistakes by treating boken fingers and other bones but the upside is we are going straight to the consumer. We may even be able to give a gautanty of pain relief which other medical professionals do not do. This is the route to get cash paying patients and freedom from the dreaded middle man: Medical Insurance company!
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - June 7, 2005 11:16:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
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As discussed earlier, I don't think malpractice is in any way a concern.
Look at the track record of other practitioners as well as PTs in other countries...it's pretty clear.
Randy-
I practice under US Army regulations, since I work on a federal reservation. If I wanted to moonlight (I work too hard as it is, thanks) then I would have to get a license in the state I currently am in.
As it is now, Army therapists must have a license from a state, but what state it is doesn't matter to practice in the federal system.
If I were working for the government as a civilian, I would need a license in that state, but would still be bound by the federal regs, and not the state practice acts.
Those of you wanting more privileges, feel free to apply to your local military hospital or VA...
Sad that an LMT could get further into the market with 300 hours of training than I could with everything i've done...
J
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 4, 2005 7:13:00 PM
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fixedgear
Posts: 16
Joined: August 3, 2005
From: NY
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I don't know if anyone will read this since the last post was a while ago, anyway. I'm one of the LMT's that you're talking about, and I agree with the concerns you all have. I don't think LMT's should be able to asses and tell anyone what they have and then go one to "treat" them. Even though we do learn soft tissue assesment in school, and some of us to spend more that 300-500 hours in school; I still don't think it gives you the full capeability of a PT. I see alot of people that come in with some complaint and I have an idea as to what it could be, but instead of telling them what I think is going on I suggest they try to get in to see a PT and then, if the PT sees fit to give me a diagnosis and whatever other instructions they would have for the patients tx. I feel that we can be very effective when we work together. I'm every bit as concerned with these other MT's trying to fix and diagnose, I went to school with these people and I know what they're like and I hate to be associated with the vast majority. I really just wanted to speak up for our side of it, and to let you guys know that there are some responsible therapists out there. I also personally plan to go on to be a PT and I think my backround in massage could serve me well. So there you go....
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 5, 2005 2:47:00 AM
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dosrinc
Posts: 335
Joined: December 9, 2004
From: Bonita Springs
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Fixed gear,
I appreciate your response and your info. Good luck in your progression to the PT profession. I am glad to hear that you don't think that your 500 hours in school (12.5 weeks at 40hrs/week) gives you the full capability of a PT. That would be hard to accomplish seeing as how most of us worked 7 years or more for our degrees.
Rick
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 5, 2005 4:47:00 AM
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fixedgear
Posts: 16
Joined: August 3, 2005
From: NY
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The program I went through was 1200 hours and I don't feel confident to try diagnosing so it freaks me out to think someone with even less education is out there doing this. I'm excited to continue my education and be able to work more effectivly and with more "tools".
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 7, 2005 5:58:00 AM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
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'Medical massage' is nothing more than an attempt to 'medicalize'/legitimize plain old vanilla massage therapy, and to make it sound more appealing to medical referral sources.
I spoke to the owner of a massage therapy school and asked her this very question. 'Sports massage', 'medical massage', etc. She said there's NO difference between that and regular massage therapy.
It's like if you guys started calling ultrasound 'medical ultrasound' or hot packs 'medical thermotherapy' (which you obviously don't). It would be nothing more than an attempt to medicalize a therapy in an attempt to legitimize it and make it sound more impressive.
Frankly the same is true of the use of the term 'chiropractic medicine', 'medical optometry', etc. I understand the desire to distance ourselves from the pejorative implications of our respective professions' past, but I'm just being objective here.
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 7, 2005 7:55:00 AM
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Jon Newman
Posts: 1707
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From: Amherst, WI
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Greg,
Add to that list 'sports medicine'.
jon
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 7, 2005 9:41:00 AM
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fixedgear
Posts: 16
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From: NY
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I agree that medical massage is maketing and not much more and to some extent and that massage is massage. It's a big pain that people are trying to bring all these names in to play for something like this. However, I think there is some difference in the way that massage therpists practice. As a massage therapist, I think that plain old massage is something that you'll get in a spa or some similar setting and not much more than that. My interpretation (which is the problem with medical massage) for medical massage is working twords a common goal with other healthcare providers, like when you guys have a therapist working in your practice. I don't think it's assesing and treating based on what I think is going on. I want to have direction from someone with more education and whose job it is to decide what is wrong. Only after this would I consider doing "medical" work. I by no means put myself on the same level as all of you on this board but I also am not sure that you know how we're trained sometimes.
This is alot of naming and trying to legitimize massage, and I think it's appropriate to some extent but we should in no way replace or work at the same level as a PT or DC.
I also am curious as to what you as PT's and DC's would define "medical massage" as a technique or how you would utilize it if it was a treatment as I described it rather than a person with direct access to patients with out the supervision of a medical professional.
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Re: "Medical" Massage Therapists - August 7, 2005 5:01:00 PM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
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Fixedgear, I appreciate your humility and want you to know that my comments were in no way meant to denigrate or otherwise minimize massage therapy as a profession. In fact, we have sent our patients for massage therapy for many years and currently have two LMTs working for us. A good LMT might have as good or even better hands than an average DC. So don't sell yourself or your profession short.
I'm just distracted by the medicalization of terminology that doesn't really reflect anything that we can sink our teeth into. What in the world is 'medical optometry', for example? Is there one molecule of difference in a 'medical optometrist' from an 'optometrist'? The answer is no. Is there any difference between the practice of 'chiropractic medicine' and 'chiropractic'? Of course not. But there is PR benefit in the '__________ medicine' or 'medical __________' because it's piggybacking on the public standing of medicine. Simple as that. And I'm not complaining that my state board is named the Florida Board of Chiropractic Medicine. We can use all the good PR that we can get.
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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