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Re: Worse than POPTS?
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - May 13, 2005 7:28:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
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From: USA
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Good question, don't know.
But I thought it germane to the specific case that started it all...
J
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - May 13, 2005 8:34:00 AM
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USAPT
Posts: 278
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I totally agree.
Have a good weekend everyone
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Jason, PT
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - May 14, 2005 10:10:00 AM
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dross
Posts: 54
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From: NJ
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I have worked in chiro offices that have a PT. These were personal injury/no-fault practices. The lawyers want to refer patients to offices that have chiro,md,pt,and accupunture. The PTs I have worked with were ALL employees of an agency that sponsers them for a Visa(not the credit card). This is the only set up I have seen. Its not good. Not good at all.
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - May 16, 2005 3:22:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
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From: USA
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Interesting way to concentrate all sorts of services in one place so as to completely take the third party payer for the biggest ride possible.
Makes you wonder why there weren't chinese medicine people, massage therapists, and anyone else available to jump on the bandwagon...
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - June 17, 2005 6:57:00 PM
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ddd4645
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Joined: June 16, 2005
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Here is 1st hand information from a very sad ex-employee. On 6/10/05 Veridian Health was shut down by it's creditor Bank One of IL. The building was secured by police and everyone was asked to leave. However, nobody was paid that day (a payday). Mitchell E. Rubin (The Owner) was nowhere to be found. Management soon found out that Mitch was in debt to the tune of about $10 million! We didn't get paid because he was paying employees with loan money. The bank knew it was going to forclose on the business, so that's why we never got paid. Of course the lawsuit had something to do with the bank's decision. However, Mitch had to lead a lavish lifestyle with 2 private jets, 15 cars and $300,000 philanthropic endeavors. He basically had hired attourneys to examine every law and loophole to devise his scheme. He even used employee data to open up AMEX cards to charge business expenses. When the company closed, what was thought to be an authorized to use company card became a "limited liability card" that the employees are responsible for!! When I called the company, they stated that this wasn't fraudulent? As a healthcare provider that performed electrodiagnostic testing for Veridian, I felt that the tests were thorough. There can be overlap with some of the dermatomes. However, now I see what the fuss was all about. NCV/EMG is painful. Not everyone needs to have everything done. This REALLY was done to bill the max for every code. Although I never got much flak for my clinical decisions, some other techs were reamed if they omitted a test, or performed a test "incompletely". Personally, I found the US exams worthless. I would never order that test. I can't believe they would bill $1500 for a 10 minute test and actually recover the insurance money! Mitchell E. Rubin is all that is evil in medicine. He is the Enron of the medical field. It would be one thing if he truly was motivated to provide convenience to patients. However, his greed, extravagance and selfish endeavors are his sole motivation. I can't say enough about this scumbag. He intentionally screwed tens of thousands of patients with "thorough" testing, screwed docs out of money (bounced checks) for the last two months, didn't pay employees for the last three weeks, didn't pay for benefits, and left people in financial misery... all for his own greed. This is one individual who deserves to go to hell. If I saw him on the street I don't know what I would do. I hope I could restrain myself. However, we should all take note because it's people like this that will prevent other legitimate providers from doing similar medical endeavors. I can't believe I fell victim to a jerk like this. However, they say what does not kill you makes you stronger
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - June 18, 2005 7:12:00 AM
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Dr.Wagner
Posts: 1242
Joined: January 24, 2003
From: Indianapolis
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Wow...uh, perhaps you should censor youreself a little more strongly. There is a thing called Libel.
Watch yourself.
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Dr. Wagner DO
Moderator of Medical Complexity Forum
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - June 18, 2005 12:16:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
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I worked for a guy like that once. His daddy opened the clinic(s) and he took over when daddy retired. Daddy (I later came to find out from more than a few clinicians in the area) had been investigated on at least 6 occasions for Medicare fraud, and I've heard licensed suspended on more than one occasion (although again, I don't know first hand --- sounds about right though). It was therefore second nature for this non-clinician to bill patients one-on-one for group therapy (fraud), "bill" them for physical therapy when provided by an ATC or MT (under PT's participation numbers), "gift" ATC's to referring MD's for in-office care (Stark violation), and have techs (ATC's) treat patients in a Saturday clinic (as a PT aide) without PT or MD supervision . . .
I've taught courses on what to look for in your first job . . . and this guy offered so much opportunity at first that he SNOWED my wife and I. Getting out of that situation was like leaving the mob. Previous empoyees were tailed at home and work by interal "managers" with nothing better to do, and contracted private investigators. I have reason to believe my wife and I were too.
In the end, my wife and I were so beaten down and tired that we just wanted to left alone --- and had to present an ironclad case of extortion (that would punishable in both civil and criminal court) at the feet of his attorney. The statute of limitations isn't up yet, and who knows what we'll end up doing, but he's left us alone ever since --- and we're both in MUCH, MUCH, better situations now. It makes me sick to think that this guy is still in business, but it's clear to me how he does it. Most former employees simply want to be left alone after a while.
The best part is the way that clinicians, techs, and admin staff would pay the utility bills (and never end up being reimbursed) because this guy couldn't find the money within the 400K salary he paid himself.
It's only a matter of time until some pissed off patient takes a case to the OIG in the same way that HealthSouth got nailed.
Drew
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Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - June 19, 2005 1:36:00 PM
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SJBird55
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Joined: May 10, 2004
From: Michigan
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So, have you or do you plan on doing anything about it?
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Re: Worse than POPTS? - June 19, 2005 3:24:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
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I'd rather not discuss in open forum how I (with or without other former employees) responed in the past, or how I (with or without other former employees) intend to respond in the future.
Drew
_____________________________
Dr. Andrew M. Ball, PT, DPT, Ph.D.
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