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Re: let's get political
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Re: let's get political - September 21, 2004 4:05:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
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From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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Yeah, I can see the US dumping nuclear waste into Canada, especially since one day in the not so distant future you will be either
a) begging us for drinking water, or
b) invading us to get drinking water. Either way, yum, love that special radioactive cachet..
I found this little gem on the quality of wisdom, from authentichappiness.com:
[QUOTE]Wisdom is distinct from intelligence as measured by IQ tests (Sternberg, 2000). Indeed, Sternberg goes so far as to suggest that intelligent, well-educated people are particularly susceptible to four fallacies that inhibit wise choices and actions. You can read more about these fallacies in Sternberg's entertaining book Why Smart People Can Be So Stupid (2003), but I will summarize them here. As you read the list, see if you can generate relevant examples of famous political and business leaders who have been susceptible to these fallacies!
==> The Egocentrism Fallacy: thinking that the world revolves, or at least should revolve, around you. Acting in ways that benefit yourself, regardless of how that behavior affects others.
==> The Omniscience Fallacy: believing that you know all there is to know and therefore do not have to listen to the advice and counsel of others.
==> The Omnipotence Fallacy: believing that your intelligence and education somehow make you all-powerful.
==> The Invulnerability Fallacy: believing that you can do whatever you want and that others will never be able to hurt you or expose you.[/QUOTE]Reminds me in every way of the current regime. Except for point three I'd add, family connections.
Diane, over and out.
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Re: let's get political - September 21, 2004 8:08:00 PM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
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This isn't directed at anyone in particular, as all are entitled to their opinions. But is it possible that (assuming the 'betavote' numbers approach validity) that (1) other countries prefer a weaker President, which without a doubt Mr. Kerry would be; (2) that other 'more gentle' governments don't like a President that chooses to take the fight to the terrorists instead of waiting for the terrorists to bring the fight here; and (3) other countries just hate the U.S. because we're the only world superpower (and routinely the first to come to the aid of countries that have suffered calamities, I might add) and they view our Commander-In-Chief as a leader that will keep it that way?
Just something to ponder.
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: let's get political - September 21, 2004 8:14:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
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Hey Diane nice work fending off the Canadian attacks! My goodness, I wonder how the political climate in the US always translates into Canada bad! Maybe some reverse jealousy??
Canada wins the popular vote...just like Gore did.
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PRC
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Re: let's get political - September 22, 2004 12:24:00 AM
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Randy Dixon
Posts: 744
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Blame Canada!, Blame Canada!
South Park is visionary.
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Re: let's get political - September 22, 2004 5:06:00 PM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
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Mr. Levy,
Maybe it's just me, but I have no idea what your post has to do with this thread...
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: let's get political - September 22, 2004 5:31:00 PM
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Bournephysio
Posts: 585
Joined: April 25, 2002
From: Calgary
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He is a spammer. He has posted this on two other topics that it has nothing to do with. I've reported the post.
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Re: let's get political - September 22, 2004 7:03:00 PM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
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Diane and ColoradoJulie,
My overall opinion of our good neighbors to the north is 90% favorable, and although you both know that I've given you a hard time in the past about certain Canada/US issues, when push comes to shove I'm glad that Canada is one of our closest allies.
I realize that Canadians, just like Americans, aren't homogeneous, and I certainly don't want to paint with too broad a brush.
You have both made some very articulate and reasoned comments in defense of Canadian policies, and although we certainly see some things differently, we are still neighbors and I am happy that our countries' relationship is close.
My best,
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: let's get political - September 22, 2004 7:32:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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you just like their beer
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Re: let's get political - September 23, 2004 5:11:00 AM
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TLB
Posts: 353
Joined: September 13, 2002
From: Arizona
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Tito, Can I get a tissue?
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Todd
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Re: let's get political - September 23, 2004 9:12:00 PM
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OUPT
Posts: 32
Joined: March 23, 2004
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Diane... you say that America is oil hungry among numerous other slams. Any idea why the recent shortage of oil???? It has little to do with us. It is your dream come true government that we should all pray for... China.
Are you actually going to call a socialist...errr communist government all of the things you described our great country as being? The most self-centered government on the planet is the ******... who I am sure you admire. They only care what is best for them financially (i.e., Iraq), and these are the people you want to get permission from to protect our country and assets? This world government nonsense will only make the US weaker... and that is exactly what Kerry hopes to head toward. The UN is more crooked than the worst chiro scams out there(no offense chiroortho.... I'm sure that doesn't apply to you), yet you want approval from these people for everything.
We certainly won't be begging Canada for water, and we don't need to invade you either... since we're so bomb happy and love the destruction of all wilderness areas (conservatives), we'll just drop a few hundred bunker busters on the Canadian Rockies to rearrange the drainage. We're getting tired of stealing all of Mexico's water anyway.
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Re: let's get political - September 23, 2004 9:14:00 PM
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OUPT
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Why does France get ****** on this site???
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Re: let's get political - September 23, 2004 9:53:00 PM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
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OUPT,
None taken.
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: let's get political - September 24, 2004 3:52:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1205
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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OUPT, there is obviously fire in your belly. I do suggest that the Four Fallacies in Diane's post can be applied very well to your Sept 24, 1:12 post. Don't get mad at me, just take a look at your statements and the Four.
There is no doubt that politics brings out the worst in most of us - as far as debating is concerned. We tend to pronounce "absolute truths" (e.g. "the UN is more crooked.."), emotional statements without factual basis and straw man fallacies. It seems sad that we can not use this type of debate to promote better understanding of the "other" side - i.e. those who have a different opinion. The chance to compose a thoughtful and reasonable post WITHOUT verbal interruption and jeers is better than in face-to-face debating.
I am an immigrant to Canada from the Netherlands, have lived in the far east and Europe, and have seen a large variety of political systems and philosophies. It is remarkable how similar the individuals of many nations are, yet can be mortal enemies when "national" issues come into play (good pals with a Brit - who almost decked me when "his" soccer team lost to PSV - a dutch team I do not even support!).
Look at Diane and Greg (just examples!!) - two thoughtful contributors who can show "their teeth" in debate, show them much more sudden and vigorously when nationalism and politics pop up!
It won't hurt a fly to let it rip here, but is it helpful? Is it beneficial to ALL involved? Does it promote a point/issue? Does it promote understanding, or does it do the opposite? Does it respect the other as you would like to be respected?
These are simple questions, but their daily application can form the cornerstones of a workable, mostly peaceful community (our world IS one). The four-way test of Rotary International (founded in Chicago!) looks like this:
The Four-Way Test of the things we think, say or do :
1. Is it the truth?
2. Is it fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build goodwill and better friendships?
4. Will it be beneficial to all concerned?
May look sappy, but it does work. It is sometimes ironic to realize that from what is sometimes perceived as the most selfish nation on earth, this organisation has bloomed. I like that.
So folks. I have gotten this off my scrawny chest in a long ramble - shoot the messenger but heed the message :-)
Sebastian
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Mundi vult decipi
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Re: let's get political - September 24, 2004 4:27:00 AM
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Jon Newman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
From: Amherst, WI
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Many have argued that culture itself is the source of many woes in life. We seem to learn most of our debating skills from reality TV and "talk" radio (TV). This is recapitulated in the campaign process (anyone feel confident in the facts they get from campaign ads?).
The presidential debates certainly help but are mired in their own controversy and seem to depend heavily on the moderator's skills.
If (some of) the dialogue in this thread is how leaders of countries (leaders of anything) conduct themselves behind closed doors it is no wonder war is still a reality for humanity. The very title of this thread is symptomatic of the problem. How about, "let's get rational" although that does take significantly more work and requires an interest both in humanities and science. Good luck to us!
jon
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[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: let's get political - September 24, 2004 5:20:00 AM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
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[QUOTE]Look at Diane and Greg (just examples!!) - two thoughtful contributors who can show "their teeth" in debate, show them much more sudden and vigorously when nationalism and politics pop up![/QUOTE]Sebastian, I must concede that I sometimes let my fervor overtake my decorum, and I will work on that. I enjoy politics, and am quite involved here in Florida on a local level. Just yesterday a rep for a candidate for our local county Sheriff was in my house (he's a friend and patient) and I gave him a check. But if I get out of line, don't hesitate to call me on it. :)
What has been your impression of the differences between the political/economic systems of the Netherlands vis a vis Canada?
My best,
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: let's get political - September 24, 2004 6:37:00 PM
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nari
Posts: 1568
Joined: November 14, 2003
From: Australia
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A quiet note from Australia -we are having elections in 2 weeks- and all we hope for is that whoever wins in the USA or Aust, we do remain an independent nation with independent thought processes but happy and supportive of our allies.
All I can say is that we are due for a change, whatever the reasons. Long-serving PMs and presidents tend to get rusty around the edges.
Nari
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Re: let's get political - September 24, 2004 8:17:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
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Hey how about a tax cut in war time? First time in history I believe...and oddly timed just before elections....
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Re: let's get political - September 25, 2004 7:45:00 PM
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mato_tom
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Joined: June 20, 2003
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jeeezzz alllmighty....bush proposed the tax cuts wayyyyy back when he first took office and has pushed congress to make them permanent ever since.....has nothing to do with this election
if you are against the tax cuts and/or against the permanent tax cuts in a time of war is one thing , but to say that bush is using tax cuts at election time for a purpose shows that you are very uninformed.....please do more research before you vote.
he has been committed to tax cuts forever. :rolleyes:
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Re: let's get political - September 27, 2004 4:12:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1205
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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Greg, the differences are too numerous to mention all - last time I was looking (in the 80s) seriously at the political parties, we had something like 19 with seats for many of those. There was an openly communist party ("the Communist Party" had one of the longest held seats - but only one), about three different very religous and openly parties, a Green Party and so forth. I am working from memory, so if there are Dutch lurkers here, please correct me. The elections are more for a party than a person - even so, a personality can become a major factor. But many voters tend to equate the candidate with the party, and if the party's policies and platforms are not to their liking, no vote. Having so many parties makes for cumbersome governing, but it truly reflects the variety of opinions, allows major decisions to be picked apart and discussed extensively, compromised occasionally, and they do not see the major, sudden and dramatic policy and $$ shifts that Canada (or the provinces) sometimes sees when governments change hands. More moderate change and less upheaval. There are disadvantages of course. Sometimes things seem too slow....There seems to be this hurry to do all in four years, since that "might be the only time we get" - with a multi party system and proportional voting, issues can be worked on with much longer planning.
Economically - they seem very well off - there is a difference between say a lawyer and a blue collar worker - in housing, car driven, where they go on holidays, but kids of either of them can go to university, they both have good health care (lawyer will pay extra) and eat well. I tink I am not out of line to say that in the Netherlands, their form of democratic, moderate free enterprise socialism makes a workable system. Is that transferable to vast countries like the US and Canada? I think not. But some aspects could be looked at. I believe that in Canada, we should get rid of the provincial levels of government - seems like a terrible waste of money, especially when the provincial premiers spend $$$$ to negotiate with the federal government over money the federals got from the provinces in the first place. get rid of the provincial layer - I can only imagine a streamlining. That is a whole other bag of spiders....
Anyway - think of the Netherlands as having had a teensie bit more experience than the US and Canada in managing their country - they've been at it (and rather successfully) for a long time.
Wellll. Once I start yapping....
I wish all of you in the US the best with the election - but please: VOTE. I am a fanatic about that civic duty....
Sebastian
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Mundi vult decipi
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