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Re: what would be fair salaries?
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - July 30, 2004 4:49:00 AM
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Dr.Wagner
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Like I said, when I compare it with medical residents, RN's, RT's, and those in EMS...even teachers...your fantastically low stress work hours and no call(EVER) I think you have it pretty good. I personally think PTA's and ATC's get a really raw deal. Do I think you guys need a bigger bite of the corporate PT pie, yes.
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Dr. Wagner DO
Moderator of Medical Complexity Forum
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - July 30, 2004 5:59:00 AM
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chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
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[QUOTE]Greg,
Sorry but if you suppose that a manipulation is more powerful than a PT care, you will have some problem to prove it![/QUOTE]Flash, you're right about that. I'm one of those weird DCs that thinks I can learn from my PT colleagues.
And Flash, we're just kidding about the French thing, come on. Like the French never make fun of President Bush, right?
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - July 30, 2004 11:28:00 AM
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hmgross
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From: Minnesota
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PTA's don't have it so bad compared to LPN's. I was an LPN once, worked ICU in the hospital and remember making about the same as a salad maker in the cafeteria. As a PT in a hospital outpatient setting, I did OK salary-wise, but I think some of the RN's were right up there. Yes their hours were not the best, but they got shift differential pay.
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Holly Gross PT
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - July 31, 2004 2:28:00 AM
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Yen
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From: Australia
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Whats this joke about the French?
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - July 31, 2004 6:42:00 AM
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chiroortho
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Wouldn't go there if I were you, Yen.
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Greg Priest, DC, DABCO
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - August 1, 2004 4:35:00 PM
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mcap56
Posts: 619
Joined: October 26, 2002
From: New York, NY
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There are many aspects to this issue and no one simple answer......
1. Dr. Wagner is correct. Often we underestimate how nice it is to just go home and not worry about work until we get there the next day. I love my current job, but after tending to related issues from home at times, I miss the simplicity of the clinic. I have friends who are physicians and make good money. But with the potential to treat over 40 patients a day, will follow up calls, Rx calls, lab results, and patients who demand the latest commercially advertised pharmaceutical (that may or may not be on the forumlary), the pay isn't that much. Their per hour rate is lower than you would think.
2. Unfortunately that simplicity attracts some folks to PT who just aren't that ambitious. These are the check collectors that Duffy is complaining about. There are far too many of them and they are drain on the field.
3. Starting salaries aren't really the issue. They have always been decent (although, I must say, they haven't really kept up with inflation. They are the same now as they were when I got out of school 8 or 9 years ago). The real issue is what happens to the therapist who has been working for 10 years, has kept up, read, taken courses, etc. There isn't much of a market for these folks and many of them end up leaving. There needs to be better opportunities for advanced clinicians who take the time. There should also be more opportunities to use the PT degree in other settings or industry.
4. I think that Pt would benefit by ultilizing practice models that are in use in other areas of healthcare. Physicians, ODs, DDSs, DCs and others join a practice as opposed to coming on as an employee (in many but certainly not all cases). The practicioner has a stake in the practice and has much more motivation to contribute.
5. There are healthcare professionals who do quite well. You can't start PTs extremely low when pharmacists and nurses make so much more. At some point, the rad techs and U/S techs will surpass us if it gets too tight. OTs and speech however, usually make a bit less. So it's hard to say where we fit in.
6. No one should go into healthcare for money. The money that gets tossed around during lunch for my friends on wall street takes a year of negotiation at my school. I knew someone who was paid $5,000 for a three hour lecture in basic finance at one of the wall street firms. I had a patient once whose salary was over $10,000,000 one year. We aren't motivated by money, but no one should think earning over 60,000 is ridiculous. Compared to what some do in society, we are worth it. Of course, market ecoomics have little to do with worth to society, ask firefighters, cops and teachers :)
So..as usual..I don't know what the answer is. We shouldn't just wait for circumstances to dictate our pay. Everyone should be getting together and discussing/pursuing constructive ways to change the current situation. The subject seems to be taboo among some PTs as if the pursuit of better pay takes away from the patient somehow.
The room should not go quiet when I bring up salary to my students. Many of them act like they have no control over what a hospital or clinic will pay them upon graduation. Perhaps in the short term, they don't. But they should be planning 3 steps ahead from the very beginning.
mcap
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - August 3, 2004 10:02:00 AM
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mcap56
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Joined: October 26, 2002
From: New York, NY
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Just read an article in advance about competing for students with other professions. Pharmacy grads are starting at 90K!!!!!! PT is a tough sell on that one. What are we to do about it?
-mcap
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - August 4, 2004 9:53:00 AM
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PTPLUS
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Just wait for the Goverment to really get into the prescription drug business. You'll see those PharmD's with the same look my PT class had on our faces in '99 when our instructors started talking about "$1500 caps" and "no jobs"
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Re: what would be fair salaries? - August 9, 2004 2:54:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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Hi this is my first post. I'm not a PT, my wife is, but I have been part of the PT world for quite awhile. I owned a clinic and contracted to home health agencies and employed several PT's.
I liked some of what PTplus said. The problem I have with paying PT's by production is, if you decide to pay by production then patients become a product. This leads to the hot pack/estim/massage and out assembly line therapy some of us have seen. The ones least happy about this are your best therapists.
To me the issue of what a PT should be paid is almost like asking what should an artist be paid. I don't want to pay the same for someone who scribbles as someone who creates masterpieces. This is a difficult thing to explain to employees, especially in a larger company.
So the problem is how do you create a market that reflects each individuals worth? I think this is vital in the field, new grads get a good starting salary but there is little monetary reason to improve your skills. A great diagnostician, with good palpating, manipulating and clinical skills is worth their weight in gold, while someone with the same "papers" may not be worth their weight period. I agree with PTplus here, it is a terrible waste to have a skilled therapist watching someone walk on a treadmill or counting reps (although sometimes that is a good use of their time), I would much rather have a motivated, well trained tech doing that. I think we have been bullied into that because of the propagation of the assembly line therapy and the misuse of techs and the backlash it caused.
Anyway, I think the movement towards higher entry level degrees is a good thing, the establishment of DPT and the current certification-craze are good things, as long as the standards are kept high. This places you on a better footing with other professionals. I believe in profit sharing, with percentages individually determined and I believe that is working towards partnerships and shared practices.
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