|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession?
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 24, 2004 6:44:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Wait a minute, coloradojulie, you were being civil until the last comment.
I think I'm showing my fellow man more respect by expecting him to do what he can for himself, as opposed to "nanny government" doing it for him. This nanny govt. mode has led to perpetual welfare families in the inner cities. Why work when you can get a monthly check for free?
Now lest you berate me for these comments, I will REITERATE: I am all for helping those who CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES; for those that can but don't/won't, I will not saddle my children with their bills.
We view things differently. We could debate Canadian health care issues, and why so many Canadian doctors practice in the U.S. (as opposed to the other way around), but I would risk being rude, and I don't want to be.
------------------
ChiroOrtho
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 24, 2004 9:17:00 AM
|
|
|
PTPLUS
Posts: 50
Joined: February 12, 2004
Status: offline
|
Sorry attributing the quote above to the wrong person…too many Evals this week I guess…no where in the constitution of this country does it say universal health care or coverage or whatever is a right. It is a privilege or compensation that is awarded to one who works for it. That is why the United States grew into a super power so quickly the free enterprise system proved to be superior to socialism in terms of quality of life for it’s citizens. I guess no one wants to learn from history though, as we are slowly moving toward totally socialized medicine, which will take all competition out of health care between providers, which will really hurt the system. We will end up with even bigger taxes, horrible health care, and an even bigger class of people who depend on my tax money for their living. Sorry, but that is not the America I want to live in. If socialized medicine has been so great in other countries then why are people not leaving here to move to Canada or Europe or wherever else pseudo-communism is the norm?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 24, 2004 7:52:00 PM
|
|
|
coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
Status: offline
|
I am recovering from a hearty chuckle...one moment..........
"psuedo-communism"....very seldom an adjective to describe countries such as Canada. You crazy republicans can sling it better than anyone...kudos for that!!
Having been at one time in my life a family on welfare, I think you speak in great generalizations and are prone to making statements with very little factual support. "they" "them" "us" etc. Who feeds you this stuff?
I think we were on welfare for about 3 years...I have two sisters...I have a masters and both of my sisters have honors degrees in Ocupational Therapy and Human Resource Management. (The education system is Canada is also subsidized by the government, ortherwise none of us could have afforded to go to university). I'd like to thank the welfare system for giving us this opportunity...which we are all paying back now with our personal income taxes.
I worry about the republican attitude that mutual support is somehow restrictive to independent living. I am constantly amazed in my observation of the American political scene as to the amount of restrictions the republicans would place on American way of life in the name of increasing freedom. Very strange... Pro Choice vs. Anti Abortion. Of those two options, which is freer? Constitutional ammendments to ban gay marriage or support of legal partnerships (giving gay and lesbians the rights married heterosexuals enjoy...you know, social security, visiting them on their death bed, etc). Which is more freeing? You got me there.
To say that adopting a system that unifies a country to maximize the essential benefits for it's citizens is a negative is mystifying. Take another look at taxation distribution and your children are paying alot more for other things....that maybe aren't as important as their education, the environment or their health. I have no kids in school yet...but I pay taxes for public education...should that bother me? Should I get a refund? I will probably not use the public school system for my child's education (mostly because there are some really cool mountain schools in Colorado)...but I will still help pay for the education of other people...doesn't bother me. My house never burned down...should I get my money back from the fire protection district? We can't pick and choose when we want to be part of this society. You're either in or out...I help you and you help me...strength in numbers.
I hate to admit that there are those that abuse social systems, but I am sure it is nearly equivalent to those who abuse the system from positions of affluence...Enron?
When you have no control as a child to the environment you are born into, the parents you have or whether there is food on the table tomorrow...it is nice to know that unlike ethiopia, we can support our poor, and give them the tools to make a difference in their own lives...as my family was once given the opportunity.
(Violins please....)
As you will note from my previous post, I suggested a combination system...neither fully supportive of socialized medicine or private funded health care.
I find it interesting that in the global community, the superpower of the US is nobody's best friend. Perhaps the US could learn an thing or two about learning to play well with others.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 24, 2004 8:03:00 PM
|
|
|
OUPT
Posts: 32
Joined: March 23, 2004
Status: offline
|
Coloradojulie.... I usually enjoy reading your posts as you seem to be a top-notch clinician with a lot of good ideas. HOWEVER, you are way off with American politics.
"where did the money go? I suspect the republicans know this better than anyone."
Are you serious??? Who spends more money... dems or republicans?
Democrats care more about the wealthfare of our fellow man? Do you see that in their actions or do you get that information on CNN (mcap) and reading the New York Times (mcap)?
We are clearly better off as a profession with republicans in the majority. Socialized medicine has never worked, and that's not going to change if we do it here. How many people go to China or North Korea to get that cutting edge TKA?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 24, 2004 10:37:00 PM
|
|
|
Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
|
Coloradojulie, great commentary. I echo your comments, as I came from a dirt farm and my PT training was done completely on a federal public health bursary. My family wasn't on welfare but there was no money for frivolity like post high school education. Tax cuts are welfare for the rich. RepubliKan thinking is sociopathic thinking.
Diane
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 2:36:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Diane and Julie,
Wait until you start making some serious money. Then you'll start seeing how much you love your "tax the wealthy, give to the poor" Robin Hood attitudes.
One more thing, about your comment:
I find it interesting that in the global community, the superpower of the US is nobody's best friend. Perhaps the US could learn an thing or two about learning to play well with others.
I couldn't care less about what the "global community" thinks of the U.S. But I guarantee that the U.S. will be the first country in your "global community" to come to your aid when disaster strikes you (even food to North Korea, and massive aid to Iran after their earthquake)--where was your "global community" then, Julie?
And, Julie, please (1) list the countries that came to the aid of the U.S. in the days after 9/11, and (2) exactly how much money did those countries send us?
------------------
ChiroOrtho
[This message has been edited by chiroortho (edited March 25, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by chiroortho (edited March 25, 2004).]
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 6:06:00 AM
|
|
|
Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
|
"I couldn't care less about what the "global community" thinks of the U.S."
Proves my point about RepubliKan thinking being sociopathic I think... and the sense of absolute entitlement, "me now" ...I think we could safely assert that RepubliKan thinking is mired in the stalled psychology of 2 to 3 year old maturation levels.
I wonder what income bracket is "serious" as opposed to "optimal"?
Diane
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 6:18:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Diane,
1) Define "optimal" income.
2) Do you think that the government should limit individual annual income?
3) If so, what should the limit be?
------------------
ChiroOrtho
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 6:40:00 AM
|
|
|
Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
|
If you look back you'll see that I asked you first.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 7:04:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Diane, when I see things like childish name-calling and sarcastic remarks about the maturity of whole groups of people, which is exactly what you have done, I question your ability to debate a topic on an adult level.
That said, I don't care what you or anyone else makes, and I don't think that just because you're financially successful, that the government should redistribute your income against your will. Not against your will, you say? Then nobody's stopping you from donating all but $10,000 of your income, because surely you agree that if people in Haiti consider $10,000/year to be overwhelmingly rich, that you have NO right to be so rich.
Do you agree, or is it just my money that you want to be redistributed?
------------------
ChiroOrtho
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 7:11:00 AM
|
|
|
Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
|
Hmmnnn...I think somebody is cranky and needs a nap. An optimal income is one that, within a given country is adequate to meet an earner's needs with sufficient left over to save towards a non-needy retirement.
'Dude, where's 'your' country?'
Diane
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 7:33:00 AM
|
|
|
mato_tom
Posts: 89
Joined: June 20, 2003
Status: offline
|
pssst......chiro......they are canadian. save your energy.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 9:26:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Thanks, mato...I was beginning to wonder if they were for real.
------------------
ChiroOrtho
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 10:00:00 AM
|
|
|
mcap56
Posts: 619
Joined: October 26, 2002
From: New York, NY
Status: offline
|
Before the militia forms up on the board...
let's talk about the facts please.
I have repeatedly asked all of you to tell me how you would provide care for the elderly without medicare. No answers.
I have asked how the private sector could control costs and double digit healthcare inflation. No anwer
I have asked you to acknowledge that the rich take out far more than they put in to both social security and medicare because the payroll tax is capped. No answer.
Of course, it is easy to sit there and say my money is my money!!! So who pays for your police? Don't need them? Who keeps the library open? Who runs the traffic lights? Who runs the courts? Who operates schools. Who makes sure your air flight is safe? Again...no answer.
I hope that you don't have relatives that used medicare or that either of you went to public colleges. Because that would mean some of my tax money went to subsidize YOU.
This has nothing to do with people making lot's of money. I have a friend whose take home salary was 15,000,000 last year. Guess what....he deserves it.
Here's another question for you......name the last republican administration that controled the government spending you are so angry about. You better think hard!!!
Politics are probably best left off this board. But if you are going to discuss them, you should know what you are talking about. Perhaps you should read the NY times.
mcap
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 10:12:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
>>This has nothing to do with people making lot's of money. I have a friend whose take home salary was 15,000,000 last year. Guess what....he deserves it.
Great, mcap. The only problem is that you want him to give the government 14,950,000 of it in taxes.
------------------
ChiroOrtho
[This message has been edited by chiroortho (edited March 25, 2004).]
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 4:36:00 PM
|
|
|
JM
Posts: 15
Joined: March 25, 2000
Status: offline
|
mcap,
I can see where you have been getting all your "facts" - the New York Times. The most liberally biased paper on the planet. You'd be hard pressed to find any facts in that rag. It is nothing but the leftist agenda. How loosely we use the term "facts".
I'm sure you would find many stories supporting socialism in the Times!
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 8:00:00 PM
|
|
|
mcap56
Posts: 619
Joined: October 26, 2002
From: New York, NY
Status: offline
|
Then please use your real facts to refute what I said!!! The payroll tax isn't capped??? Republican presidents have reduced spending?
This thread has been going on forever and yet no one answers any of the basic questions I posed. Now it is turning into a militia thread.
This board is getting ridiculous in general. I think it's time for a break.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 25, 2004 10:06:00 PM
|
|
|
coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
Status: offline
|
Mcap....I agree with you fully...not much substance to this rhetoric. And in general the forum has deteriorated with less stimulating, useful or supportive discussion. I hope this changes...
Diane, thank you for your support, apparently however, the opinions of Canadians working in the US don't matter or are not "real".
Again I repeat I have suggested a combination of systems.
No I am not a political expert, and neither apparently are any of you.
In a very brief net search found some of the following contributions to the war on terror in support of the US in response to the 911 attacks:
The European Union consisting of 23 countries contributed 103 million dollars to humanitarian aid to afganistan along with US aid.
Canada deployed more military force...and we are a force...than it had in 50 years (since the Korean War). 2000 servicemen and women, ships and planes.
Countless other countries including England, Australia, etc. added personnel and peacekeeping efforts to the war on terror. I am sure a break down of the American Red Cross contribution would show, as an international organization, substantial contributions from abroad.
You keep asking for "definitions" "exact figures" but have yet to provide any yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 26, 2004 4:12:00 AM
|
|
|
chiroortho
Posts: 655
Joined: February 18, 2004
Status: offline
|
Ok Julie, here are a few figures for you:
Aid to Afghanistan by EU (23 countries): $100 million; US aid: $3.6 billion in grant money, plus $1.4 billion in loans. Let's see: 23 countries in your beloved global community give less than $5 million each, and the self-centered, greedy, heartless U.S. gives $5 billion. You have a compelling argument there, Julie!
(see [URL=http://www.afghanistangov.org/resources/mof/adf-ahsf-artf/Aid_Analysis-with_graphs.pdf)]http://www.afghanistangov.org/resources/mof/adf-ahsf-artf/Aid_Analysis-with_graphs.pdf) [/URL]
Now, mcap. I have some figures as of 2000, may have changed slightly since, but didn't have time to search more (see [URL=http://www.know-law-now.com/Taxation/payroll_tax_law.htm).]http://www.know-law-now.com/Taxation/payroll_tax_law.htm).[/URL] Social Security tax is indeed capped at $76K, but if you're an employer, as I am (7 staff members), you pay 6.2% and the employee pays 6.2%. Now since I am an employee of my corporation, I pay roughly 15% into S.S. while you pay only 6.2%. Moreover, regarding the Medicare tax, as of 2000 there was no cap, meaning I paid 1.45% for employees, and as an employee I paid a matching 1.45%. Let's just for the sake of discussion compare a self-employed doctor making $400,000 with a teacher making $40,000. Doctor pays $11,600 in Medicare taxes, Teacher pays $580 (her employer pays the other 1.45%). Doctor, $11,600; Teacher, $580. Greedy doctor, bad doctor...tsk, tsk.
You are socialists, and your socialist propaganda is nonsense. Your arguments are based on emotion, not facts.
------------------
ChiroOrtho
P.S. mcap, Knock it off with the militia accusation nonsense.
(Edit for P.S.)
[This message has been edited by chiroortho (edited March 26, 2004).]
|
|
|
|
|
Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? - March 26, 2004 4:15:00 PM
|
|
|
PTPLUS
Posts: 50
Joined: February 12, 2004
Status: offline
|
mcap, cojulie>>>>okay so you like many PT's do not enjoy political speak, that is Ok but does affect our profession and society in many ways.
How many have thought about this..In ten years most of the Baby boomers will be hitting retirement age and becoming eligible for Medicare. Most of the PT clinics, hospitals etc that I have had contact with had large patient populations that were baby boomers who had private health insurance and made up much of the profitable cliental for the organization. OK when all these boomers get on Medicare that means what up to 90%(that is just a guess) of healthcare delivered in this country will be delivered to Medicare patients. Ok now think about the current rate of declining reimbursement from Medicare we receive for our services as Physical Therapist. In ten years the average new graduate P.T. will make something like $30,000 a year and pay most of that back to the government in taxes in a vain attempt to support a social program that can no longer support itself. Where will the motivation for talented students to become health care providers be when we reach this point? You can trust the government to not let this happen if you like but at the rate the government is growing federal BCBS will be the biggest health insurance provider in America after Medicare.
The militia thing made me laugh...just because I own guns, eat red meat, drive a gas guzzling pickup and wish the republicans would move back to the right where I'm at doesn't mean I'm an extremist (well maybe I am a little extreme). I just think this country was better off when people took responsibly for their family, job, finances, and personal actions instead of looking towards Washington for every little thing
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
0.094
|
Printable Version
All Forums >> [RehabEdge Forum] >> Open Forum >> Re: 2004 Election - How will it impact our profession? 
