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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 19, 2003 6:47:00 PM
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touchiba
Posts: 101
Joined: November 11, 2002
From: PA
Status: offline
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Enlightened,
I did not try to demonize medicine. I was just pointing out your selective bias of the literature. You seem to think that DCs are crap for not doing something that most other professions do not do. Your expectations are unrealistic.
You are like a broken record using the same arguments over and over, and if the situation doesn't apply to those arguments, you create a strawman to fit it.
I second the opinion that you have an agenda. Check out other message boards and this becomes very evident. Deny it all you want.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 19, 2003 7:03:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
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There's not much for me to contribute to the chiro to chiro bashing going on here, but I do want to re-focus the discussion of the value of experience.
While experience has value, one of my attendings (a physician) when I was doing my post-graduate clinical fellowship up in New York said, "You know Drew, don't let anyone try to devalue your education or clinical worth on the basis of the experiences they've had and the lack of time in clinical work that you've had to date . . . . Have a healthy respect for experience, but never forget that experience isn't true experience if the "experienced" clinician simply practiced their first year of practice 20 times over."
Wise words . . .
Drew
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 19, 2003 7:24:00 PM
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touchiba
Posts: 101
Joined: November 11, 2002
From: PA
Status: offline
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I wouldn't say its chiro to chiro bashing. In enlightened's own words,
"After graduating from Life College, I concluded that my education had not adequately prepared me to practice chiropractic in a scientific manner. In 1998, After disappointing experiences in working in three chiropractic offices, I quit the profession for good."
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 19, 2003 8:15:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
Status: offline
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Wow this thread is way off topic...are you just all ticked off at enlightened DC because he has different ideas then mainstream chiropractic? Isn't there a wide range of clinical practice from DCs that is licensed and endorsed by your association? We here at Rehab Edge don't know your obvious history over there on you chiro site, but could you take it back there? Unless of course you have something useful to say that we can all learn from.
We are very close to seeing you using the word whore again...
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 19, 2003 10:03:00 PM
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touchiba
Posts: 101
Joined: November 11, 2002
From: PA
Status: offline
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I think we can all appreciate different approaches to practice, however, enlightened is anti-all chiropractic, and spends their free time bashing chiropractic on most message boards on the net. The recent posting of private comments is just his way to further stir the pot and make chiros look bad because he has no interest in improving the profession.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 20, 2003 8:15:00 AM
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rehabdoc
Posts: 51
Joined: March 17, 2003
From: Butte, MT US
Status: offline
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[QUOTE]Feel free to email them I'm sure they can give you all the info you need. Their email is on their website [URL=http://www.chiromed.org.[/QUOTE]]www.chiromed.org.[/quote][/URL]
You posted a bogus self-serving statistic...reference it. I can't seem to find it on chiromed.org or any other lit. search.
Also, using quotes from Sid Williams: Paaalease.
[This message has been edited by rehabdoc (edited March 20, 2003).]
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 21, 2003 6:40:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
Status: offline
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Backdoc:
Albeit you and enlightened seem to go way back...this type of bashing isn't welcome in this forum. Nothing positive is coming out of this. We're not here to judge individuals, but to discuss practice issues and better ourselves professionally. At least enlightened is stimulating conversations that are relevant. We may not always agree but we never attack each other personally.
Either tone it down and discuss something we can all benefit from, or move on. You may accept these type of bashing rants in your DC forum, but please keep them out of here.
Thanks Much.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 21, 2003 10:40:00 PM
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goodlooks58
Posts: 425
Joined: October 21, 2002
From: CA
Status: offline
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No. Don't stop. Keep it coming! I do enjoy occasionally watching Jerry Springer!!!
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 5:31:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
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Tone it down BackDoc. You've had very valuable contributions in the past, and although some of what you say has merit, the message is getting lost in the tone. I'd hate to see you banned from the site because someone jumped into this conversation in the middle and got the wrong idea.
That said, when enlightened talks EBM, he's got a point. What I object to, is his then turning around and pushing his commercial/technique version of all-things-EBM.
Drew
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 6:29:00 AM
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RehabEdge
Posts: 18
Joined: May 2, 2000
Status: offline
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Backdoc has been banned.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 9:06:00 AM
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goodlooks58
Posts: 425
Joined: October 21, 2002
From: CA
Status: offline
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River: As a PT I took a seminar from a radical chiro who deciced it is high time PTs learn manipulation techniques. He said that there are 3 adjustments which a chiro does to every thing who walks into their office: 1st one for the neck, 2nd for the thoracic region and 3rd the million dollar roll. It was a 2 day course and for the entire 2 days we were taught these 3 techiques. I use them on patients who have gone to chiros millions of times and now they are in my office from their MD from a another ins. These patients are brainwashed that these adjustments are their only salvation. I don't remember, but there is a research which says that with one area adjustment on the spine there is a 9% increase of endorphins. Now imagine you crack 3 areas on the spine and there is a euphoric "good" feeling of the endophins rushing through your body. It is not at all difficult to learn these 3 techniques. Of course, I would be careful in choosing the patient with no radicluar symptoms or any disc disease or any other contraindications.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 9:56:00 AM
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NYDC67
Posts: 49
Joined: December 19, 2002
Status: offline
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"He said that there are 3 adjustments which a chiro does to every thing who walks into their office: 1st one for the neck, 2nd for the thoracic region and 3rd the million dollar roll."
I hope he had a million dollar practice also because it only takes about 60 seconds to treat "things" that walk into your office like that. High volume chiro offices do practice that way, but not true for all chiros. No different than a PT office that does the same treatment for everyone no matter what the diagnosis. High volume care is the same in both professions, meaning poor quality care.
[This message has been edited by NYDC67 (edited March 22, 2003).]
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 12:16:00 PM
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goodlooks58
Posts: 425
Joined: October 21, 2002
From: CA
Status: offline
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The enlightened one, I like your response! Your responses and comments do make sense. Thanks.
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Re: vertebral manipulation for PT - March 22, 2003 1:11:00 PM
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NYDC67
Posts: 49
Joined: December 19, 2002
Status: offline
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Goodlooks,
As superchiro stated previously, take your weekend course (or 4 wk course) in manipulation and set up shop next door to us. We could use the patients. Enlightened DC does not speak for all chiros as you can tell from the exchange on this thread.
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