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Re: What's in the mystery trunk?
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 3:16:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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So, Diane, would you prefer something like this:
[URL=http://members.aol.com/STARCHIRO/STARCHIRO.html]http://members.aol.com/STARCHIRO/STARCHIRO.html[/URL]
?
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 4:25:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
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Hi there you two,
You still haven't answered my question, do you have bodies.
Bcat, what is your point with the website?
Diane
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 5:14:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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Why, yes, I have a body and it is quite furry and soft. I also have big strip-ed areas from my flank down to the end of my spikey tail...but that's not important right now...
I thought of that webpage after reading your really confusing statement: "Yep. Instead of trying to make variable physiology and anatomy fit your perspectives of everything needing to fit into some sort of mathmatically definable mental box."
Not to be pedantic, but, I think there's two sentence fragments amongst three dangling run-on sentences in there, and it's not clear what subject is referencing what object.
Please clarify.
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 5:22:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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"The brain is the master of the nervous system, the spinal cord an extension of the brain...as if the brain is a blob of taffy and a piece was pulled to form a rope shape. The brain is protected by the skull; the spinal cord by the vertebrae or spinal bones. In order for us to have flexible bodies, the spine has to be encased in a series of bones that will allow movement or....we'd be like turtles....not able to bend our bodies.
The bones are separated by disks that also act as cushions when we run or jump or walk. The disks also make a space for nerves to travel between vertebrae and communicate with our spinal cords and the muscles they control and provide sensation for. Problems happen when a vertebrae is subluxated or slightly misaligned. The misalignment can cause direct or indirect pressure on a nerve which then translates to the muscle or other tissue the nerve controls. In addition to muscles and sensation, nerves control the function of our internal organs through the autonomic nervous system. Part of that system, the sympathetic system, located in the rib area, communicates with the spinal cord in a "Mind/Body" fashion.
For instance, when you are frightened or excited, your heart beats faster and your muscles pump up while your digestive system slows down. This is "fight or flight" and is to ready us in case of danger or in case we need extra energy for something. The digestive system slows down to provide more blood circulation for the muscles so we can react faster to a situation.... it's more important that we run away from that hungry saber tooth tiger than digest our last dish of spaghetti.
"
Whoa.
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 5:24:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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Located in the "rib area"?
Double Whoa.
Whoa.
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 6:01:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: offline
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Thank you. No further questions.
Diane
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 7, 2002 6:03:00 PM
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mcap
Posts: 652
Joined: February 8, 2000
Status: offline
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Diane:
I think I do have a body.
My girlfriend may disagree however [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
mcap
mcap
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 8, 2002 1:47:00 PM
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ChiroGuy
Posts: 63
Joined: January 24, 2002
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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Bobcat,
In reference to one of your posts on March 7th, perhaps you would prefer something like this ...
[URL=http://www.chiropracticchoice.com]www.chiropracticchoice.com[/URL]
ChiroGuy
P.S. I've gotta ask; why the heck are you so fixated on discrediting chiropractic that you waste your time finding sites like the one you mentioned?
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 8, 2002 9:37:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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Actually, I found the StarChiro site more imaginative and vivacious, albeit, frenetic also.
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 8, 2002 9:40:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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mcap mcap,
How can you be sure you have a body?
Love,
cat
xoxo
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 8, 2002 9:53:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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"
Since the sympathetic system is fed nerve impulses from the spinal nerves, doesn't it sound reasonable that the sympathetic nerves would suffer less energy if the nerve that feeds it is compromised by a spinal subluxation at its level?
If irritated nerves can cause symptoms such as pain, numbness, tingling and/or burning, doesn't it make sense to see a chiropractor if you have any of those symptoms before you have surgery or put drugs into your body?
[Gee, hope it's not a stroke, either. -- Editor]
Or, why wait for symptoms?
[You mean just get treatment for the disease you don't know which one it is yet before you contract it? That really is a mystery trunk. -- Editor]
You don't contract a disease the day you first see or feel symptoms or have it diagnosed.
Unless it's a safe falling on your head it usually takes some time from the beginning of the problem to the date of the diagnosis.
"
Tell me truthfully that you read this and didn't find it amusing.
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 8, 2002 9:55:00 PM
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Bobcat
Posts: 493
Joined: July 13, 1999
Status: offline
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Dearest SJ,
Have you been suffering less energy, lately?
Yours in Life as in Death,
cat
xoxo
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 9, 2002 12:58:00 AM
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Medad
Posts: 16
Joined: January 27, 2002
Status: offline
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Bobcat,
Look straight into my eyes.
What do you see?
[IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/eek.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 9, 2002 3:58:00 AM
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henryryry
Posts: 100
Joined: September 6, 2000
From: Brisbane, Australia.
Status: offline
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Hi all,
I have been really busy; just started my Master's course and look what I have missed! It is interesting reading all the different posts, especially in the beginning talking about posture and biomechanics, and relationship with biomechanics and pain.
Personally (and this is only my opinion), I believe that ergonomics has failed miserably in preventing pain. Like mcap said, lifting techniques have not stopped back pain at all. Instead, we have an esclation of back and neck pain (Waddell). I think the fault of the ergonomics model is that it is mostly based on the biomechanical/anatomical model. I am not implying that the biomechanical model should be thrown out, but I can see from the literature and from my couse work that a neurophysiology model is going to be dominant in the next few years. Perhaps we will be proved wrong again and another model will come out to make up for the faults of the neurophysiological model, but at least progress is made instead of grasping on something that obviously has tremendous faults. Patrick Wall wanted Physio's to grasp this concept a few years ago, and I think we are slowly doing so. Just hope we are not too late.
Diane,
With regards for stretching of a muscle, I agree with you regarding the psoas and stretching it on particular patients. however, sometimes I wonder WHY is it that the psoas is tight so often?? Is it there to provide some form of stability to the lumbar spine, and doing the work because some other muscle isn't working properly (eg, TA, Multifidus)?? So if I release it, can I create instability in the lumbar spine without training some of the other stabilising muscles??
A similar analogy can be found in the levator scapulae, which is often tight. Many therapists will automatically release the muscle thinking that it would stop the problem only to find it tighten again. The lev scap must be overactive for a particular reason (eg, overworked because traps aren't working), so instead of just lengthening it, why not train the trap's motor control as well?
Just some thoughts of mine...
Henry***
PS - Bobcat, I enjoyed the website!
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 9, 2002 6:05:00 AM
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mcap
Posts: 652
Joined: February 8, 2000
Status: offline
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Henryry:
Whoooooooo. Dont' throw out the biomechanical model just yet.....wait until I have a faculty position (or go to law school instead [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
But seriously......be careful with interpreting Waddell. He isn't saying that the amount of intial back and neck pain episodes is increasing. This has probably been the same throughout. However, he is saying that the amount of back and neck chronicity and related disability is. For this we have to look at a whole bunch of economic, psychological, and other factors.
As for ergonomics.....we do know....quite well that there are mechanical risk factors for LBP in the workplace (as well as psychosocial ones). We know that excessive flexion, extreme loads, bending and twisting and excessive repetition can cause injury.
These can be addressed easily. There have been plenty of situations where this has been addressed with tremendous success and published. For our own ranks, there have been great successes where no lift policies have been instituted in hospitals for patient transfer. I think PTs fall short in ergonomics because they look for behavioral and postural solutions that are simply useless. Examples include telling people to maintain a particular sitting posture without support, or showing someone how to lift (as if we actually know). Most of these situations require engineering solutions.
I would agree that Ergonomics has not been as sucessful as it should be because yes....they often don't account for the nervous system. As for psychological factors, there is a substantial body of research. But companies and employees aren't going to allow ergonomists to come in and start asking questions about the work atmosphere and management. It's a recepie for disaster.
How's the master's course going? Are you about to become one of those super scary evidence based, expert Australian PTs that makes us all feel ashamed?
[IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
mcap
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Re: What's in the mystery trunk? - March 9, 2002 3:40:00 PM
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henryryry
Posts: 100
Joined: September 6, 2000
From: Brisbane, Australia.
Status: offline
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mcap,
point taken with Waddell. I think the biomechanical model is still important, so I wouldn't throw it out [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/biggrin.gif[/IMG] I think however it is utilized more by the orthopaedic surgeons, and looking at their record, I think we need something a bit more than that.
The course is great... a lot of evidence based stuff and clinical reasoning, and listening to lecturers like Jull, Hodges and Viscercino are great (especially their views on the profession and where it will go). No... despite their emphasis on evidence, EBP is a combination of what is best for the individual, what is best from one's clinical reasoning and the evidence at hand, and not just on the evidence.
I will leave it for now...
Henry***
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