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Shannon Moretto -> frequently asked questions (April 22, 2000 6:29:00 AM)

Now that i am in physical therapy school, i am asked questions by my friends and family that i am sure all of you have been asked. i have opinions and have asked my professors what their answers would be, but i thought i would get other responses as well since these are questions i will undoubtedly be asked whenever i reveal my association with physical therapy. question #1: does cracking your knuckles cause osteoarthritis, question #2: do the weight lifter belts (the ones that supposedly support your lower back) work? I'm sure there are more, but these are the only two i can think of right now.... thanks for any responses.
shannon




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 22, 2000 11:06:00 AM)

Shannon,

Welcome to the forum. A student from Temple (well-respected by this therapist as a physical therapy school that tends to produce excellent evidence-based practitioners) will certainly be an asset to the RehabEdge discussions.


For future reference, a quick MEDLINE sweep, taking less than 90 seconds will usually give you a few articles from which to start. My personal favorite MEDLINE engine is Pubmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/). It’s easy to use, up to date, and FREE. Also, they will send you ANY article that you wish for $8. Given the ease of access to this information, don’t let any “experienced PT” or future CI give you ANY EXCUSE for not keeping up with the literature.

In any event, using the key words “knuckle and crack” I yielded the following results that would seem to, at least in part, answer your first question (the whole process actually took less than 30 seconds in this case):


Chan PS, Steinberg DR, Bozentka DJ. Consequences of knuckle cracking: a report of two acute injuries. Am J Orthop 1999 Feb;28(2):113-4

Watson P, Kernohan WG, Mollan RA. A study of the cracking sounds from the metacarpophalangeal joint. Proc Inst Mech Eng [H] 1989;203(2):109-18


After reading the abstracts (and preferably the articles themselves) , please let us know what you think the answer to your question may be. We would also be interested in knowing what information you located during your MEDLINE search prior to posting your question on RehabEdge. Finally, I’d like to challenge all RehabEdge members to conduct their own MEDLINE search BEFORE RESOPONDING TO THIS TREAD WITH “EXPERT” CLINICAL OPINION.

__________________________

I think that your second question is an interesting one as well, but I’ll put it back on you (and all other RehabEdge members) to do a MEDLINE sweep before commenting further on that point. I’d also challenge you as a student to critically review, critique, and perhaps IGNORE any and all responses to your questions that are not referenced with anything more than “extensive years of clinical experience.”

If I can be of assistance in your literature search, please e-mail me directly at Drewpt@mindspring.com and I will be more than happy to walk you through the evidence-based process.

Respectfully,
Drew


We look forward to your reply




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 22, 2000 2:31:00 PM)

Hey there Bobcat,

We meet again young Skywalker . . .

Though clinically, and logically, I would tend to agree with Bobcat's ASSUMPTIONS (for he has not backed them up with anything other than "expert opinion") . . . the limited research I could find on the subject seems to contradict our mutual (and perhaps incorrect) assumptions on the first count (take a look at the articles referenced above).

On the second issue, research can be found to support both sides of the argument. I've e-mailed this information to Shannon, who I expect will discuss this once she's had a chance to review all of it. Though I enjoy Bobcat's comedy and wit, when it comes to this particular discussion, this falls into the "clinical opinion" category that should be IGNORED pending an extensive review of the literature.

Com'on Bobcat I’ve come to expect more from you and you’re disappointing me. You're not a stranger to evidence-based practice. I've seen you back up your positions before, so what's up???

Drew

IGNORE THAT WHICH IS NOT REFERENCED!!!


------------------
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
MBA/PhD Candidate


[This message has been edited by Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT (edited April 22, 2000).]




Rose -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 22, 2000 2:45:00 PM)

In my extensive years of clinical experience (do I get to stay ??) I have found the belts issued to everyone to be not much more than "reminders" to use good body mechanics.They, all by themselves, do not guarantee that back injuries will not occur. of and by t




Shannon Moretto -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 23, 2000 7:45:00 AM)

Thanks for all the responses. Yes, yes, i agree that whatever response i give to these questions should be based on scientific evidence and not just one person's experience. i have performed the search and found several articles..... now i have to find the time to get the articles! when i find the information, i will share by posting it. thanks again for everyone's responses!




mcap -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 23, 2000 7:58:00 PM)

To the group:

PLEASE refrain from making assumptions about the low back that simply haven't been proven. It is really making the profession look bad.

First....on belts. The research consensus is that there is not enough evidence to support their use. Here is a good one but I can give you others if you want:

Use of Back Belts in occupational settings, Minor SD Phys ther 1996 Apr;76(4):403-8.
"The epidemiological data concerning the efficacy of back belts in the prevention of occupational low back injuries are not sufficient to warrant general use of back belts.....There is actually a potential for increasing the degree of low back injury with general application of back belts."

The principle of belts is based upon the "intra-abdominal pressure" theory. This is the same one that has therapists telling patients to develop strong abdominals to protect their spines. This has not been proven....EVER (except transversis which is far different from Rectus, Obliques, etc.).

The truth of it is that when the collective potential of the lumbar muscluature is added, biomechanists are not quite sure how the back can lift large loads. The muscles simply don't have the capacity. The "pressure" theory has been proposed but it does not hold up. 1. Training the abs in healthy people does not increase IAP. 2. The pressure necessary to resist the movement would have to be so high as to obstruct the abdominal aorta 3. Due to the abdominal arrangement the muscles would exert a flexion as well as anti-flexion moment. (Bogduk - Clinical anatomy of lumbar spine and sacrum - 1997)

In short, this whole business of Abs and back pain is not based on anything substantial. Just like those therapists who tell their patients to loose weight....another false assumption. Many things we learn about the spine in PT school simply aren't true!!!!!!

-mcap




Dana D -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 3:48:00 AM)

So, are you saying people who are overweight, particularly with excess in the stomach area, are not at a greater risk for low back problems?




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 5:39:00 AM)

Forum,

I am getting increasingly irritated with so called professionals on this forum who are on one hand demanding more respect from the general public, trashing chiropractors, asking the healthcare industry to view us as experts in neuromusculoskeletal dysfunction . . . yet don't seem to have the basic evidence-based skills to know when they are spouting nonsense and making the entire profession look like quackary.

If Mcap won't come out in defense of his position and point out Dana's errors, then I sure as heck will . . . because I hope that we can all learn something from this experience and not ever repeat it again on RehabEdge. We are professionals here, and we should start taking a little more responsibility for obtaining the facts via MEDLINE before sarcastically attacking others based upon our own (usually insignificant and incorrect) "expert clinical opinions".

First of all, Mcap went ahead and took a look at the literature before commenting on his position. Dana on the other hand, expected us to challenge Mcap's position based no more than what I can only assume to be her extensive "clinical expertise". The problem with her assumptions based upon her "clinical expertise" is that they wither and die with a quick glance at the literature. The research strongly suggests that obesity is a very minor causative agent in cases of LBP, IF IT IS A CAUSATIVE FACTOR AT ALL. What I found interesting however, is that the reverse scenario may be causative (e.g. chronic low back pain may lead to a higher incidence of eventual obesity). Both the Lake 2000 and Leboeuf-Yde 1999 articles are pretty clear on these points, though my personal favorite is the 56 study literature review by Leboeuf-Yde 2000 in which ", only studies emanating from the general population with a sample size exceeding 3000 were included." That means that 160,000 people were included for analysis in the literature review. The study found only "thirty-two percent of all the studies report a statistically significant positive weak association between body weight and LBP." The Lake study however, would strongly suggest that this relationship was CORRELATIONAL, but not CAUSATIONAL.

So Dana, if Mcap isn't saying it, I sure as heck am. According to the FACTS, people who are overweight, even with excess in the stomach area, are NOT at a greater risk for low back problems!


Submitted in a Respectful, yet Irritated and Frustrated manner by,
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT


References:

Lake JK, Power C, Cole TJ. Back pain and obesity in the 1958 British birth cohort. cause or effect? J Clin Epidemiol 2000 Mar 1;53(3):245-250.
An association between obesity and back pain has been observed, but the underlying causal direction is uncertain. We examined the temporal sequence among back pain, BMI, and weight gain using data from the 1958 British birth cohort followed to age 33 (4395 men and 4468 women). Heights and weights were measured at ages 7 and 33, and self-reported at age 23. Back pain was classified as: chronic, incident, early onset but recovered, and never. Those with chronic pain gained more weight between ages 23 and 33 than those with no pain, significantly for women (7.39 kg vs. 6.29 kg). Women who were obese at age 23 years had an elevated risk of subsequent back pain onset (32-33 years) (adjusted OR = 1.78). No significant relationships were found for men. The risk of pain onset among women was evident in relation to BMI at baseline (age 23) and cannot therefore be explained by an effect of back pain on adiposity.

Leboeuf-Yde C, Kyvik KO, Bruun NH. Low back pain and lifestyle. Part II--Obesity. Information from a population-based sample of 29,424 twin subjects. Spine 1999 Apr 15;24(8):779-83; discussion 783-4.
STUDY DESIGN: A cross-sectional postal survey of 29,424 twin subjects aged 12-41 years obtained from a population-generated panel. OBJECTIVES: To determine whether obesity is associated with low back pain. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Despite a large number of epidemiologic studies in this area, it is unclear whether obesity and low back pain are positively associated, and if so, whether there is a causal association. METHODS: The association and dose-response connection between body mass index and nonspecific low back pain experienced by subjects in the preceding year were studied. Possible modifying effects of age, gender, type of work, and smoking were investigated. The prevalence of nonspecific low back pain was also studied in monozygotic twin pairs who were dissimilar in body mass index. RESULTS: There was a modest positive association between body mass index and low back pain that increased with the duration of low back pain. The underweight subjects consistently reported lower prevalence of low back pain (odds ratios < 1) than did those higher in weight. The dose-response curve was usually A-shaped. A positive monotonic dose response was apparent mainly in those with long-lasting or recurrent low back pain. The positive association between body mass index and low back pain disappeared when monozygotic twins who were dissimilar in body weight classification were studied. CONCLUSIONS: Obesity is modestly positively associated with low back pain, in particular with chronic or recurrent low back pain. However, because the association is weak, because there is no consistent positive monotonic dose response, and because the link disappears in monozygotic twins who are dissimilar in body mass index, it is unlikely that this association is causal. It is possible, however, that obesity plays a part in the chronicity of simple low back pain. Therefore, those with recurring or long-term low back pain deserve further attention.

Leboeuf-Yde C. Body weight and low back pain. A systematic literature review of 56 journal articles reporting on 65 epidemiologic studies. Spine 2000 Jan 15;25(2):226-37
STUDY DESIGN: A systematic review of the epidemiologic literature. OBJECTIVE: To establish if body weight is truly associated with low back pain (LBP) and whether the link may be causal. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Because obesity and LBP are prevalent in western society, it is of interest to establish whether obesity can induce LBP. METHODS: Fifty-six original research reports, reporting on 65 studies published between 1965 and 1997, were systematically reviewed for the frequency of positive associations between body weight and LBP. In addition, the presence of positive findings was examined in relation to several study characteristics. Based on these results, only studies emanating from the general population with a sample size exceeding 3000 were included in the additional search for causality using some of the classical Bradford-Hill criteria. The review was carried out by the author, blindly at 2 months' interval. RESULTS: Thirty-two percent of all the studies report a statistically significant positive weak association between body weight and LBP. Studies that fulfilled the post hoc criteria never report a rate ratio above 2, but there is possibly a positive biological gradient. These studies had no information on temporality or reversibility and there was no obvious consistency of findings. CONCLUSIONS: Due to lack of evidence, body weight should be considered a possible weak risk indicator, but there is insufficient data to assess if it is a true cause of LBP.


------------------
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
MBA/PhD Candidate




mcap -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 6:56:00 AM)

Drew:

Thanks for the support. YOu saved me some time on Medline!!

Dana:

Yes it may be hard to beleive but weight is not really a risk factor for LBP. It is summed up by Waddell after a review of the literature as follows "Contrary to popular beleif, most studies show that body weight, and even obesity, does not increase the risk of back pain (page 89, Waddell, Back Pain Revelotion, 1998). I recommend this book to ANYONE who treats patients with LBP.

I think that as a profession we must stop with these assumptions. They are not based on anything. The information will slowly dissapate to the public and we will be stuck in clinic telling the same tired old stories to patients while we loose our referral base.

Want another classic myth?? Try this one. There is no evidence that telling people to squat while lifting has any protective effect on the spine "Stoop or squat: a review of biomechanical studies on lifting technique." Clin Biomech 1999 Dec 14(10):685-96. Yet...you will see therapists....every day...telling patients how to lift. Guess what.....we don't know how!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It depends on the individual, the body type and a number of other factors but there is no one right way.

-mcap




Dana D -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 12:31:00 PM)

Drew, you are outrageous...

When I read this posting, it was 7:30 am..
I was simply asking a question... asking, not being sarcastic, not attacking mcap, just asking! out of my own curiousity... I read the post, had a question......

It is very difficult to write in a "sweet inquisitive voice"... it was a typed QUESTION!

Sorry, I do not get up for work an hour earlier to research on medline... I was simply asking the first question that popped into my head after reading the posting.... the fact that that was something opposite of what I remember hearing in school...the "MYTHS" this portion of the forum was based on... (remember the inital questions asked about knuckle cracking?? or is the main subject of this posting history after the tangent you went on???"

Someone had previously said how it is ironic how things we learn in school aren't always true... that you need to research for yourself...and after reading the literature that you so excellently researched, and was so generous to share with us, I now understand the point made, as it was a "myth taught in school"

You sit and ponder why people don't participate more actively in this forum.. maybe it is influenced by your eagerness to pounce on people who do not spout out endless research articles..

I asked a question, in hopes that it could be answered... a purpose of a forum, I believe... I asked a question, as in conversation...asking a question is the forbidden "error" that I am responsible for?
The error you so graciously pointed out. The error which is the responsible for the current status of our healthcare system???

I do understand the bigger picture, on how therapists on a whole, in general, need to be more active in current research and support our treatment rationales with research.. I'm all for that... I agree 100%
..

But as for my horendous "error"...
I'd hate to meet up with you in a dark alley...

And YES, if a response was not provided, well then yes, if I felt i wanted to know more, well I would of looked it up on medline myself. I am familiar with using that handy little search engine.. and YES, I am familiar with evidence based practice...as I do remember going to the library a few times while in school.

This forum can be very useful I must say...
but it is not my life... I am not going to sit endlessly and research and report..

I'm honestly tired of defending myself to you. It's a never ending battle...... I post a question and you turn it around and frankly I'm tired of your attacks...... honestly.




Dana D -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 12:33:00 PM)

Oh and P.S. mcap..

I appreciate your explaination, which was given in a very professional and respectful manner....
Thank you.




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 24, 2000 5:25:00 PM)

Dana, Dana, Dana,

Honestly. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm trying to help you. Better someone like me put you to the wall about supporting your arguments, or doing a 30 second MEDLINE scan before asking questions than a referring physician right???? When asked by a PT, those kind of questions ALWAYS sound like statements, and I'm not talking about you specifically when I say that. Those kind of questions are taken as fact within the healthcare community when they come from PT's . . . who are supposed to know the answer to that kind of question cold. Most don't, you're not alone. The difference is that you're trying to find some of those answers. I truly commend, not condemn you for that.

Your questions are fine, and ready for this . . .

YOU HAVE SOME OF THE BEST QUESTIONS ON THE FORUM!!! They spark some real scientific discussion, and I think that we all appreciate that. All RehabEdge members benefit, myself included.

That said, I think that you'll find yourself to be a far greater clinician if you spent a few seconds (and if you're spending much more than that, then you may need a little help with your search technique --- which if you'd care to E-mail me OR call me directly I'd be more than happy to help you with), conducting your own MEDLINE sweep before asking some of those questions. I'd like for this forum to be for SHARING of ideas, and I get tired of being one of a handful of members who do the literature search and then give away to everyone else. I'd like to share some of that responsibility for a change.

And yes, I understand that if you do in fact ever call for mentorship, you're going to want to "vent" for about a half hour before you take any advice or mentorship from me. Call me collect. It's on me (wink, smirk and friendly laugh).

THE POINT IS THIS:
I believe that you (and that goes for all RehabEdge members) are worth taking the time to mentor in this regard. Once an evidence-based philosophy has been established, the potential for RehabEdge is LIMITLESS.


OPEN MESSAGE TO DANA:
You Dana, I SPECIFICALLY want to be a part of that, because you have EXCELLENT questions for discussion. If you feel like I'm a little (okay extremely) hard on you, I understand, and I regret that you feel that way now. I hope however that you'll look back on this years from now and thank me for transforming the way that you approach clinical problems.

MY STYLE MAY BE A LITTLE ABRASIVE AT TIMES, BUT I WOULD NOT BE SPENDING THE TIME TRYING TO MENTOR (OKAY FORCE) YOU TO BECOME MORE EVIDENCE-BASED IF I DIDN'T THINK THAT YOU WERE WELL WORTH THE EFFORT.

All of us on the forum will benefit, not the least of all me.

I just get frustrated that you’re not coming along in that regard as quickly as I’d like. That however, is my problem, not yours, and I’m sorry for not being more supportive. (That's about as close to I get to an apology on this issue, so you'd better grab it while you can!)


Respectfully,
Drew


------------------
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
MBA/PhD Candidate


[This message has been edited by Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT (edited April 24, 2000).]




Dana D -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 3:55:00 AM)

"If Mcap won't come out in defense of his position and point out Dana's errors, then I sure as heck will . . . because I hope that we can all learn something from this experience and not ever repeat it again on RehabEdge.
When asked by a PT, those kind of questions ALWAYS sound like statements, and I'm not talking about you specifically when I say that."

So, you are not attacking me specifically? Hence the mentioning of MY name???


"I just get frustrated that you’re not coming along in that regard as quickly as I’d like"

Sounds like I'm in a conference with one of my professors or CI's there pal...at a midterm review....
Who are you to generalize that I'm not competent or "coming along as quickly"???
I use this forum as PART of my "mentorship"...and I do appreciate SOME of the responses you and other therapists have provided...BUT when I ask questions I don't need to be belittled or looked down upon as such a novice therapist, who is flopping around like a fish out of water...desperately seeking help and guidance from all mighty Drew in the area of research.

If by chance I ask another question... or if anyone else asks a question without "researching first", please be courteous and bite your tongue...or simply say "great question... get back to me with some research, I'll do my part, you do yours and we'll chat"

But also......... let other people respond..

Did you sit in the front row in class??
(just asking....you seem like "one of those")


And thank you again for pointing out my error,I'd be lost without you... as now I placed Medline in one of my "favorite places" on the internet...

You continue to shape my ways as a physical therapist......where would I be without you..




mcap -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 6:24:00 AM)

Group:

Can't we all just get along???????????

Let's start again. This thread was a good one. No more flames.

-mcap




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 10:34:00 AM)

I'm speechless.

Trying to explain myself here is apparently pointless. The professional assistance, consultation, and respect provided to you by the forum is certainly not being appreciated by you.

I have no response for Dana's comments above except to respond to her personal attack "where did I sit in class" in kind with the only response that she leaves me:

"I was sitting in a classroom at one of the top 10 physical therapy schools at the time. Does it matter where I sat? Oh, and where did YOU go to school," but I'll refrain from insults. Besides, it would be funny if we graduated different years from the same school don't ya'll think (LOL)!

I will say that the personal e-mails that I receive on a weekly basis from other forum members strongly suggest that if I don't point out the impact of professional illiteracy or apathy to FACT issues, that either someone else will . . . or there will apparently be lots of snickering and quiet laughter behind people's backs. From now on, when I get those kinds of E-mail I'll respond with "you'll have to post that yourself". And simply post on the forum, "We refrain from comment until references are cited."

Oh, and by the way, right now I'm the focus of your anger, but are you prepared to deal with the others on this forum who "agree with my comments 100%," but knowing that either I'll respond, refrain from posting because they want to stay out of this pissing match that you've insisted on continuing, stating "It's no use trying to help PT's like her?" Somehow I don't think that your ego could handle it if there were several participants constantly prompting you to back up your questions and comments . . . as opposed to one individual who's offered himself for self sacrifice. Don't thank me or anything . . .

Up until now, I wasn't angry, but your recent posting was uncalled for.

I'm simply being honest, and as moderator, filling the role of saying the things that most others on this forum are thinking, but not posting . . . because they are either e-mailing me directly or expecting that I will comment on the situation.

I'd expect the professionals on this forum to understand the difference between being challenged to back up questions and comments posted, and personally attacked. Most do. I'm not going so far as to say that your feeling like you're "in a conference with one of my professors or CI's at a midterm review" is a completely internal professional confidence/competence issue that orininates completely from within, and must be resolved competely from within . . .

But the fact remains that you are one of the ONLY therapists on this forum who consistently feels threatened by my responses to you, AND you are also one of the only ones who consistently askes questions and offers opinions without EVER having taken 2 minutes of your time to check the literature first. I suggest that you take a look at that before lashing out at me. Are you really angry at me, or frustrated with the recognition that your evidence-based skills have not kept up with the moving target that is today's entry-level competence? (And it's okay to feel that way by the way, most PT's are in the same boat . . . just be honest with yourself).

In my opinion, a PT's professional illiteracy not fair to the rest of on this forum who can and DO read . . . regardless of venue. Why should others do these searches for you? Consulting firms charge hefty fees for doing the kind of literature searches that the rest of us are EXCHANGING for free. Why should you be the only one to benifit from this networking without effort? It's unprofessional and abusive to Mcap, Bobcat, Barrett, myself and many others who consistently do the searches for others (granted I allow myself to be abused in this manner, but I'm getting tired of it).

Please understand, my frustration and anger is not with you directly Dana. That type of attitude is the pervasive norm, not the exception in physical therapy today. It's that phiosophy of thinking and treating on the basis of tradition and opinion alone that will be the downfall of our profession. We've GOT to start backing up ALL statements (and yes, questions too) with an initial scan at the literature. The public will otherwise expose us for what we are . . . glorified physical education teachers who know no more "truths" about the human body than the PT aides that we supervise.

If I have anything to say about it, I WILL NOT LET THAT HAPPEN. I'm trying to do my part to SAVE the profession by "repainting" what it means to be a physical therapy professional, so STOP fighting me on these points and grab a brush, help out!

I don't understand the resistence Dana, it REALLY does not take that long to sweep MEDLINE first, and then this would not be an issue for any of us. Besides, you'll find yourself far better recieved by not only me, but the rest of the forum, referring physicians, patients, as well.

That's all I'm going to say about this. It's got me so keyed up that I think I'm going to have a seizure. I'll let others comment upon subsequent questions or statements that are not based upon an initial review of the literature.

When I calm down, why don't you e-mail me directly to vent at Drewpt@mindspring.com. After that, truce?

------------------
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
MBA/PhD Candidate



[This message has been edited by Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT (edited April 25, 2000).]




Shannon Moretto -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 4:26:00 PM)

so,.... should i crack my knuckles or not?

shannon [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]




Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 6:34:00 PM)

Shannon,

LOL! Okay, Okay, you're right. Time to get the thread back on track!

What did your literature review turn up? I could not find anything particularly conclusive other than that there is not much of a relationship between knuckle cracking and arthritis. It may however, cause acute damage in some cases.

Did anyone else's LITERATURE SEARCH turn up any other gems??????

Drewfus

------------------
Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
MBA/PhD Candidate




chrisPT -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 25, 2000 11:44:00 PM)

Though i am just a student here, what i am impressed by the arguement here is terrible.
why are there so many personal attacks?
It is a forum here, not a battlefeild. no need to fight,right? we share our views only.
repsect others as well as yourself, esp for those who always claim themselves as so-called 'professionals' but behave like a kid yelling.

[This message has been edited by chrisPT (edited April 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by chrisPT (edited April 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by chrisPT (edited April 26, 2000).]




Rose -> Re: frequently asked questions (April 26, 2000 1:30:00 AM)

It's difficult to think of an "opening" after all this but here goes......

When I pose a question on this forum it is not because I am too lazy to do a literature search. I ask because I want "personal experience" reports from my peers. Searching out and reading studies on my own is an option, but the fellowship among peers on this forum is a "draw" for me and an enjoyable experience. In no way to I ask that others do my work for me, just share their experiences with me.




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