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Re: iontophoresis
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Re: iontophoresis - April 21, 2004 1:17:00 AM
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nari
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From: Australia
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Just a note to say that Mobilisation of the nervous system by D Butler is now outdated; he has changed quite a few of his approaches with respect to other tissues, and most importantly, the warnings against flaring and upsetting the equilibrium of paced treatment.
Try to get hold of his latest (2003) The Sensitive Nervous System. Books are expensive, but the EBP in this book makes it a valuable asset in clinical reasoning with respect to pain.
Nari
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Re: iontophoresis - May 7, 2004 6:24:00 AM
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treybien
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From: Milwaukee, WI
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I have also read that slower delivery time is a much bettter method ie the new patch that is out for sustained delivery. I believe there are some studies showing better effect.
But I have tried using ionto post injection and given up for lack of results,
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Re: iontophoresis - May 26, 2004 12:52:00 PM
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SHeidinger
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From: Boise, ID USA
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Regarding iontophoresis, has anyone tried the new IontoPatch? It's supposed to provide sustained medication release over a 24-hour period. There is some literature supporting its use, the main one posted on the APTA website. The ease of use & cost are certainly added benefits. I'd like to hear from anyone that has used it, or heard anything about it. Thanks!
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Re: iontophoresis - May 29, 2004 8:11:00 AM
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CarolinaPT
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From: North Carolina
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I've used it on one patient who couldn't tolerate ionto at over about 1.0 ma/min due to irritation. The iontopatch has worked wonderfully for him- now back to running without pain.
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Re: iontophoresis - June 15, 2004 11:57:00 AM
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Flexxion
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From: Miami, FL USA
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Anna, if you still read up on this topic... i'd like to know what happened to this patient, and if the neural tension stretches worked at all. i.e. if you tried them...
thanks,
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-Gil
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Re: iontophoresis - July 29, 2004 12:38:00 PM
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ZEAL
Posts: 10
Joined: July 28, 2004
From: FLORIDA
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Hi ARMY P.T COULD U PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW U EASE THIS CONDITION BY NEURAL TENSION STRECHES...ITS A VERY NOVEL CONCEPT FOR ME...
THANX.
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Re: iontophoresis - July 30, 2004 5:34:00 AM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
Posts: 1057
Joined: February 29, 2004
From: Kentucky
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Zeal,
I sent you an email. Good luck!
Army
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Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 6:19:00 AM
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manualtherapist
Posts: 5
Joined: August 15, 2004
From: Metuchen, NJ
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Does anyone know how to obtain acetic acid solution? I had a MD write out a prescription for 5% solution of acetic acid, but the pharmacy did not carry it nor did their supplier. Is there something that needs to be included or specific on the prescription? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 6:37:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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any pharmacy should be able to make this. I haven't had it made in about a year, but I thought it was more like 2% solution. It comes n a big bottle like a 1/2 liter saline type bottle. I'd check another pharmacy and actually speak tot he pharmacist, not a tech.
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 8:13:00 AM
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Shane Steimel
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Joined: June 12, 1999
From: Indiana
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5% Acidic Acid - Is also known as Distilled White Vinegar (Heinz) is what we use in the clinic. Finally an inexpensive medication.
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 8:33:00 AM
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manualtherapist
Posts: 5
Joined: August 15, 2004
From: Metuchen, NJ
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Heinz white vinegar? I can use that on my patient with the heel spur? Is it effective?
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 8:50:00 AM
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manualtherapist
Posts: 5
Joined: August 15, 2004
From: Metuchen, NJ
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FLAOrthoPT,
Does the pharmacy give the entire 500mL bottle to the patient or do they dispense a certain amount?
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 9:00:00 AM
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hmgross
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From: Minnesota
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There are articles on the use of acetic acid for calcific deposits, and more specifically addresses superficial areas (shoulder). Anyone our there think you can really treat the heel spur itself? I think probably the associated fasciitis.
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Holly Gross PT
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 9:27:00 AM
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manualtherapist
Posts: 5
Joined: August 15, 2004
From: Metuchen, NJ
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It could be that, but I've had 2 associates from a previous job that swore by it.
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 9:49:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
Joined: May 8, 2004
From: West Palm Beach
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Yeah they gave me the entire bottle, and i'd just pipette out what i needed each session- but like i said i am pretty sure we used a little more diluted than the vinegar from the store, like a 2 or 2.5%...
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 11:32:00 AM
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Bournephysio
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From: Calgary
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If you do a search on this site you will find that a 5% acetic acid solution also prelongs the life of hot packs if added to the hydrocolator (diluting it to much less than 5%) and is also good on french fries.
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 2:34:00 PM
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Mrxmixer
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Joined: August 15, 2004
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Iontophoresis with Acetic Acid is being used to treat calcifications,calcific tendonitis,myositis ossificans and inflammation with very positive outcomes.Percentages being used vary from 2-5%. Acetic Acid converts your calcium from calcium carbonate to a calcium acetate which is a more readily absorbed calcium. I would recommend at least 8 to 10 treatments before looking for results....depending on the size of calcification and your patient. Vinegar is a product of fermentation.Very few pharmacies or pharmacists no what iontophoresis is. Any medications that are being used for ionto or phono can be compounded for clinic use (depending on your state law) but they all can be dispensed to the patient in unit of use containers. I hope this helps!....... Please feel free to contact me with any questions about alternative compounds for ionto or phono........THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN DEXAMETHASONE AND HYDROCORTISONE.....
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Re: iontophoresis - August 16, 2004 7:26:00 PM
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Dr.Wagner
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From: Indianapolis
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8-10 treatments...at what cost? And assuming the vinegar gets to the calcifications...why not inject sterile vinegar into the calcifications for better and more direct effectiveness? ANd if it was better, then why hasn't it been used for years since ascetic acid is readily available? Of course I am kidding, or am I.
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Dr. Wagner DO
Moderator of Medical Complexity Forum
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Re: iontophoresis - August 17, 2004 4:57:00 AM
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mcap56
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From: New York, NY
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I am very skeptical about the efficacy of acetic acid iontophoresis. Do we have any sufficient support for it's use. I would sooner have the patient look into ECST.
mcap
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Re: iontophoresis - August 17, 2004 5:04:00 PM
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PTupdate.com
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Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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I have had good luck with acetic acid ionto, but only in instances where the bony deposit was existing as a precipitate prior to actual hardening, or "fluffy" stage. The principle of it working is the lower pH makes the bony precurser soluble, as it is not in normal tissue/blood pH.
Use of this modality in cases of hardened or mature bone won't work...so spurs, calcific tenodites and fragments are too far past the stage of return.
I have read and found worse effects when using vinegar, as there are too many impurities. True acetic acid for ionto can be made by a compounding pharmacist, and there is an association that has a website for location of one near you.
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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