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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!!
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 5, 2006 6:10:00 AM
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OAK
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I always find it interesting that Physicians can't own Pharmacies but can own PT clinics. Does any one know the reason for this?
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 5, 2006 1:37:00 PM
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JLS_PT_OCS
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Sure. The reason is the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 5, 2006 3:04:00 PM
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SJBird55
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From: Michigan
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clydesdale, did you know I like horses? Anyways... there do not appear to be any prefabricated letters to political figures with physician owned practices as the topic. Well, at least I didn't see any. I think in November the APTA changed the language of the situation that concerns you and the terminology is referral for profit situations.
I think the Stark Law final product was finalized in 2004, wasn't it? I could be wrong, could have been in early 2005... but either way, if the final rules all came out, that just means that for the moment there aren't any plans to revise anything within it. So, if you are politically inclined, that is the document that you want to know about or discuss.
The other thing, wasn't it North Carolina or South Carolina or some state over that way that basically had terminology within the physical therapist state practice act that stated physical therapists could not be employed in referral for profit situations? I'm not sure what happened to the referral for profit situations when which ever state board enforced the state practice act. I really can't remember exactly what happened. Maybe someone else on this forum would know the details. Look into the language of your state practice act and work on changing that. If whichever state it was that did enforce the state practice act, really did occur (I can't remember), but network with someone in that state to learn the specifics of how it happened, how long it took for it to happen, and the financial cost of changing the act.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 6, 2006 2:15:00 AM
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clydesdale6
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Jason, that is also the reason I don't expect to see a true direct access in NY. But one can dream and atleast give it a shot. If we could just at least prevent them from owning our asses completely, with physician owned practices, I would be happy.
Bird, I will make a few calls. Thanks
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 7, 2006 3:12:00 AM
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FLAOrthoPT
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From: West Palm Beach
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yteah stark law based on good old corrupt south fla. Which is still the worst flagrant violator of this law...go figure
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 10, 2006 11:48:00 AM
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pilatespt
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Don't forget, Pete, and all the others...unless something has changed in recent months, the APTA is not the "only game" in town. Have they just recently gotten control over licensing? If not, I'd guess the FSBPT is really the "game in town".
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 11, 2006 9:28:00 AM
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shutterspeedfilms
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clydesdale6: [QUOTE]Anybody have a list of legislators for NY or a contact list that will cut my time down?[/QUOTE]clydesdale6: [QUOTE]Do we have any form letters? I can write my own of course, but wonder if there has already been a good letter campaign that has all the pertinent issues. [/QUOTE]Anyone notice a trend in clydesdale6's arguments? Eventually it boils down to you getting creative and solving your own problems--not the APTA, MD's, colleagues, etc.
To me, happiness and fulfillment in work depends largely on two variables = right vocation for the individual and adequate compensation.
It seems like you've conquered half the equation, in that you have stated loving the profession (though that kind of seems debatable, no offense). I brought attention to this on a prior thread, but it seems worth repeating. What planet are you from when 75k a year is a demeaning salary? I currently make less than $32k a year as a secondary school teacher, and I guarantee you I work more hours, put up with more stress and BS, and bring home less in pay than any PT on this board.
I think much of your problem can be observed between the lines of your posts. You mentioned having paid $20k a year for your schooling (3 years, correct?), as well as being saddled with a mortgage and kids. Is the real issue that you've bitten off more than you can chew, financially, rather than with the PT profession itself?
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 11, 2006 9:35:00 AM
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shutterspeedfilms
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A couple of points I mistakenly forgot from my previous post:
1. Many people are still laboring and stressing to find a career that matches their personality and skills. Be thankful that you're ahead of the game in that regard.
2. Why did you shell out so much a year for a PT education? The public schools that I've researched cost $6k a year or so. Maybe they're not top tier schools, but at least you won't start out a new profession already in the financial doghouse.
This reminds me an awful lot of the chiropractic-bashing websites. Many of the bitter DC's there admit that if their schooling hadn't costed so much (thus putting them in a precarious financial situation at the outset of graduation), they wouldn't have nearly as much problem with the profession.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 23, 2006 12:56:00 PM
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clydesdale6
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shutterspeedfilms- You have your doubts whether i like this profession or not? Bitten off more than i can chew? I have no school debt, paid the 60k in less than 3 years, because i can manage my finances better than most of the population. What planet? Try NEW YORK. 75K enough? The person i was referring to has over 20yrs of experience and is only getting 75k and in NY that is tough. As far as your job and your salary. Teachers in the area of NY that I live in make 80k with 9 years of experience. So maybe in your area education is not valued. I wouldnt be happy with 32k as a teacher. Do you work for a catholic school. Did you just start teaching? If that is the public school wage, then that is horrible? Did you get your education in that same district? Try not to be so judgemental of people.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 25, 2006 10:08:00 AM
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shutterspeedfilms
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Clydesdale6:
Out of careful consideration for your feelings, I'll try to resist potentially inflammatory language in the future. Don't ask me to reserve my viewpoint, however.
[QUOTE]Try not to be so judgemental of people. [/QUOTE]When have I been overly judgemental? I've simply responded directly to the points you made. If you're asking people not to judge the particular point of view you posted on a public forum, you'll forgive me for declining.
[QUOTE]Did you get your education in that same district? [/QUOTE]Clever.
[QUOTE]Teachers in the area of NY that I live in make 80k with 9 years of experience. So maybe in your area education is not valued.[/QUOTE]The AFT seems to think otherwise. They've listed the average NY teaching salary as just above $55K per year. Also know that this figure is an absolute anomaly. NY ranks third nationally in teacher pay--well above the $46-47K a year national average (the lowest being $33/year in South Dakota).
Once again, 75K sounds pretty darn good to me!
http://www.aft.org/salary/2004/download/releases/SalarySurvey-NY.pdf
[QUOTE]Bitten off more than i can chew? I have no school debt, paid the 60k in less than 3 years[/QUOTE]Doesn't this simply prove my point? Even with all of your financial burdens, the PT profession has still provided an adequate salary to pay off your debts ($60K in 3 years, no less!) So how is the pay not substantial enough again? I could point you in the direction of the teacher down the hall who owes $20K in student loans. Now THERE is a person who likely will never pay off a debt before retirement!
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 25, 2006 12:09:00 PM
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clydesdale6
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I have paid the loans, not because of a good salary, but because I have a second job. Thanks and just one more question. Why are you on this site? Are you looking to go into P.T? Just curious. If your teacher friend can't pay a lousy 20k in debt before retirement, then they need some serious financial coaching. Hell, my 60k isnt much compared to many of the new grads. 20k... I would consider that nothing. What state do you live in? Take it easy.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 25, 2006 6:26:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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Clydesdale,
I think this is a pointless argument, but simple math will show you that if you make 70K a year and you use 20K a year to pay off debt that leaves you with 50K. If a teacher begins with 35K/yr, and uses 2K to pay off just a little more than the interest, he has 33K. So your argument about it not having to do with your better salary or that it is simply a matter of better money management is silly.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 26, 2006 1:27:00 AM
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clydesdale6
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Thanks Randy. I dont make 70k, wish I did. I have a second job, that would be my advice to shutter. NY is expensive, teachers get pay here that is on scale with that, the P.T.s do not. My guess is that shutter works in an area where housing and taxes are much less. You are correct this is a pointless arguement. Sorry, take care.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 26, 2006 4:12:00 AM
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Randy Dixon
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Here's the link for NYC teacher salaries.
http://www.nycenet.edu/offices/dhr/payroll/ssct.aspx
Someone with a masters and a professional license would start out at 45K. I see two differences in the teachers favor, increase pay with time on the job, and regional differences in pay reflecting COL. Of course, if you work for the government, as they do, you would see something similar.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 27, 2006 10:01:00 AM
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shutterspeedfilms
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[QUOTE]Why are you on this site? Are you looking to go into P.T?[/QUOTE]I've been considering PT as a possible career move in the near future, if my current career interests do not pan out.
[QUOTE]I dont make 70k, wish I did. I have a second job, that would be my advice to shutter. [/QUOTE]Clyde, are you honestly telling me that you work one full time (40 clock hour) job, plus another job? I've seen several PT's on this site referring to two part time jobs. Is this more applicable in your situation?
[QUOTE]My guess is that shutter works in an area where housing and taxes are much less.[/QUOTE]What does it matter? Teaching, as a profession, has historically suffered the worst pay of any field. Can this fact seriously be said for Physical Therapy? Honestly now.
[QUOTE]If your teacher friend can't pay a lousy 20k in debt before retirement, then they need some serious financial coaching.[/QUOTE]A 20K debt making 30K a year. Do the math on the one (don't forget to include rent, utilities, professional liability insurance, car and medical insurance, food, etc. etc.) How soon do you suppose one would be expected to dig out of such a hole?
Once again, this only serves to prove my point. Your career field enabled you to work enough to pay down a substantial debt. Try suggesting to any public school teacher in today's work environment to work a second job and see the reaction you get. Those familiar with the working conditions of teachers know what I mean. I won't say it's impossible. But pretty near, unless you're some kind of machine.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 29, 2006 2:48:00 AM
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clydesdale6
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Yes, I have a full time job and a part time job. Many PTs I know do that or request ovetime from their primary job. But yes, I have a full time job and also a part time job. The part time job is what allows me to "attempt to get ahead". I know a good deal about the teaching lifestyle. My wife is a teacher. You have time to get a part time job, she did. But our children have replaced that. Thanks for proving your point, my mistake.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 29, 2006 2:55:00 AM
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clydesdale6
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One more quick point, I hope you guys reach more than 30k by retirement. If not I truly feel for you. What state is this.
Also, dont you have every weekend off and 10 months in the summer. Many teachers around here get part time jobs in the beginning. But then there salaries start improving and they often cut back on the second jobs. My advice would be for the teachers that cant seem to pay their student loans, to get a second job. Good luck. Also, PT may really be a good choice in your area. Sounds like it may be down south where housing is really cheap. PTs seem to make the same no matter where they are. My salary would go a lot further in the Carolinas. But my family is here. Good luck.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 29, 2006 3:21:00 PM
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PTPT
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Let's have fund raiser for shutter. WE'll send him to PT school and he can find out the BS, hours, stress, etc. Teachers have the life.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 30, 2006 9:28:00 AM
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ehanso
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From: Minnesota
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This may be redundant. Comparing PT to teaching is difficult. In Minnesota, they work by contract 7 hours a day 180 days per year for that $45K (1260 hours per year equals $35.71 an hour) and have an icredible retirement package that allows then to make more after the 3rd year of retirement than they did the last year they worked this includes medical and drug coverage. Do they really have the life? I am not sure, but the pay and benefit package is good. Maybe we need to consider joining their union.
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Re: mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!!! - January 30, 2006 10:01:00 AM
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shutterspeedfilms
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This thread seems to have veered off topic--partly my fault. I'll make one last response concerning this issue, and then I think it's probably time I move on.
[QUOTE]Yes, I have a full time job and a part time job. Many PTs I know do that or request ovetime from their primary job. [/QUOTE]Funny. I work overtime every week, too. Just don't happen to get paid for it.
[QUOTE]I hope you guys reach more than 30k by retirement. If not I truly feel for you.[/QUOTE]No teacher is retiring after 25 years on 30k a year. 40k+, yes. And no need to feel sorry for anyone. The point of this issue is to show you that while you may not be in the top percentage of earners as a Physical Therapist, you are by no means in the bottom, either.
[QUOTE]Also, dont you have every weekend off and 10 months in the summer.[/QUOTE]10 months off? That's stretching things a bit, isn't it? Frankly, I'm surprised to be reading this argument from you, seeing as how you mentioned that your wife is a teacher. Somehow, this sort of debate always comes back to this argument eventually.
Let's do a little inventory: Half of my eight week "vacation" was spent in all-day graduate classes and workshops renewing my license. The other half was spent revising and furthering my course overview and plans. Was there a week or so buried in that time without school chores? Possibly. In any event, that's one "vacation" I could easily do without. No teacher with his or her salt is going to be content to veg out during the summer months. Most use this time to work on renewing their license or obtaining advanced credentials, board certification, or degrees.
As far as weekends go, my Sundays are spent planning and organizing for the rest of the week. Again, be happy you're being paid for your time.
[QUOTE]Many teachers around here get part time jobs in the beginning. But then there salaries start improving and they often cut back on the second jobs.[/QUOTE]I can honestly say that I do not know of ANY teachers who have a part time job (nor do I know of any who would have the time or the physical/mental/emotional stamina to pull one off).
Come to think of it, there was one teacher I saw on Dr. Phil last Friday who had a part-time job. Then again, she owed 100k in student loans and pretty much had zero choice in the matter.
And salaries improving? Teacher salaries are pretty much fixed, with only incremental (see also: microscopic) increases each year.
[QUOTE]My salary would go a lot further in the Carolinas. But my family is here.[/QUOTE]Once again, this only serves to illustrate my point. Is the PT profession the ultimate cause of your financial disdain, or outside factors? Did you research career and cost of living issues before embarking on a PT education?
One thing you can say about teachers: When we entered this field, we KNEW we were gonna be po'.
PTPT wrote:
[QUOTE]Let's have fund raiser for shutter. WE'll send him to PT school and he can find out the BS, hours, stress, etc. Teachers have the life. [/QUOTE]..spoken by someone who has never spent a day in today's classroom. Actually, I wish I could take you up on this offer. I'd for sure have the better end of the deal. Somehow, however, I don't think you'd last long.
In conclusion, Clyde, the original point was that if you weren't happy in your career, you should have been adapting/evolving or moving on. This point was echoed by many of your PT colleagues here.
Speaking from my experience, I've recently found myself burning out on my current subject area. As a result, I am making preparations to teach courses that interest me more at this point. If that doesn't work, or when that runs its course, you can be sure I'll be seeking to move into another area of the education field. That, or move out of it.
..and that's where Physical Therapy comes in.
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