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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr."
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 1, 2008 10:02:13 PM
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Crevidence
Posts: 138
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Isn't it ego for ANY doctor to go by the dr. title? The DPT is really a sign of the times.
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 7:52:49 AM
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jlharris
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Rod,
Here is the problem...many believe that the "Dr." thing is trying to say we are wanting to be physicians. So, the argument then turns to the "not the same schooling". Well, no ****. They are MD's and we are PT's. DDS', PharmD's, OD's, and vet's all didn't go to MD school either but are all clinical doctorates and go by "Dr.".
Believe me, I know the work that goes into becoming an MD, and that's why they'll always make at least 3x the salary we do. However, we are the experts in physical rehabilitation, and for those fortunate enough to choose and for those who put the extra work to go back and recieve a DPT, "Dr." is an appropriate title if so choosen.
I really don't see a problem with usiing Dr. just to boost a physical therapist's image. That's doing more than the APTA has done recently. I know there are many PT's out there (and I don't think any of them are on this forum) that are happy being technicians. But that day has come and past. For those of us that want to see PT's as a profession and viewed as THE EXPERT provider in physical rehabilitation, "Dr." is a step in that direction.
Oh, and if your residency is long enough, you can make $50k a year working 80+ hours a week (yeah, like you'd believe hospitals would abide by that little law? LOL)
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 1:32:19 PM
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kiwi PT
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Many of those slacker physicians now get away with 60 hour work weeks during residency... Still a lot a heck of a whole lot more clinical hours than we do in training.
_____________________________
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 2:13:27 PM
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Crevidence
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jlharris
I really don't see a problem with usiing Dr. just to boost a physical therapist's image. That's doing more than the APTA has done recently.
I actually think boosting our image is probably one of the best reasons to use it. Using the Dr. title we are associated with the prestige of academics/science and reason. We benefit from the status (are regarded as THE experts in physical therapy) and the pt.'s benefit from our increase in training. The medical doctors did the same thing and it worked well for them.
I don't think the residency time etc. has much to do with who can use the title . A sociology PhD is likely much easier and possibly less time consuming to obtain than a PhD in chemical physics. They probably require different abilities to think and different amounts of time involved. They still both go by doctor. Most perceive the physics student probably had to think more abstractly as well as work harder than the sociologist. Most know each is respectively THE experts in their field. The consumer will quickly learn in the clinic MD's go X numder of years and PT's y etc.. They will also hopefully eventually know each is THE expert in their field.
I am not really seeing a reason to give up the marketing and free advertisement indicating we are the experts of physical therapy. It is not like we are trying to practice outside of our scope. I am especially not sure why we would not go by the title because physicians go to school longer. I really think those who are truly brilliant such as Hawking's should be the only ones upset by the use of the title by other professions.
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 2:21:16 PM
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TexasOrtho
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I don't disagree on any particular point. I just think we put the cart before the horse. We should be demanding more rigorous educational and training standards before assigning ourselves the title of doctor. That doesn't take anything away from those who have earned their DPT's, but I think we will always hear snickers from other providers unless we can boast our training rivals the rigors of those who truly should be called doctors in clinical settings.
The last thing I want is to be lumped into the REAL frauds of the healthcare community: chiros. This is essentially a trade-school certificate artificially elevated to the title "doctor". We should demand more from ourselves. We know better and should welcome any opportunity to be better. I applaud anyone who has earned their clinical doctorate (MD/DO, DDS, DPM, DPT). However we have to be ready to rationaly justify the use of the term doctor on the merits of our training. Right now those merits are pretty poor.
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 3:08:44 PM
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TexasOrtho
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Crevidence. This goes back to my original point. A professional of sociology would not run up to a person having a heart attack announcing "I'm a doctor". Their students call them doctor on campus, but calling them a doctor in a hospital or clinic would be very misleading to the public. Why? Sure they may have taken a course in biology, physiology, or even have their CPR card. It doesn't mean they possess the same quality of training a physician does in a clinical setting.
What I believe is under discussion is should we be referred to as doctors in a clinical setting. I am not staunchly opposed to this, BUT I still think people will get understandibly confused. I also go back to my original points that we don't have to be doctors to be important.
Here's another bit. Imagine the ATC's coming along and saying they possess the same skill set to be called physical therapists. I think you might hear considerable and justifiable opposition from physical therapists. Why though? ATC's share a somewhat similar skill set. Yet we posess a unique skill set that allows us to be therapists. Because our skill set is unique, we cannot be doctors, pharmacists, dentists etc...we ARE physical therapists who happen to possess doctoral degrees in the field.
Why can't this be good enough?
_____________________________
Rod Henderson, PT
Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist (or Super-Freak)
Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist
www.texasorthopedics.blogspot.com
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 4:33:48 PM
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kiwi PT
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My position on DPT and the being called Dr. issue is actually neutral. I’m not offended by it, but I really don’t see it as a priority to push for.
However, I think that it is a shame students have to go through 4 (sometimes 3) years undergrad getting only a few useful courses Anatomy and Physiology, Physics, Writing, and spend the majority of their time on liberal arts crap. I think a 5 year program where the student does undergraduate prerequisites in the first year and has 4 years of "PT stuff" with the last year being more focused on a specific area: peds, ortho, nuero, or acute would BETTER train students than getting a 4 year degree in Biology, and then a 3 year DPT. Unfortunately I don’t think the universities would ever go for this as they would lose money.
_____________________________
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 5:12:32 PM
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T_Thom
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Personally, I do not refer to myself as doctor in the clinical setting; I don't think I'd really ever want to be called doctor. Ideally, I'd rather have it as an unstated understanding, much like attorneys. I know if they talk, I should listen. Law is their area of expertise. I don't want to waste their time, my money; we get to the point, consider given advice, and follow through as indicated.
However when the opportunity arises, I have no problem saying I have a doctoral degree in PT. I don't go running to codes, stopping at accident scenes, etc. (I have a doctorate. I'm much smarter than that!) Along with a number of other PTs, I have heard my share of "did you go to school for this", and various phrasings of this question. Most of the time, people ask because they like the care they are receiving, and are surprised we know so much. But in general, I think they expect me to say I went to the physical therapy technician program advertised on T.V.
I feel by concealing our training, it could interfere with patient care. We ask people to do crazy, time consuming, and occasionally painful things, like change habits, exercise, along with making professional judgments. Conveying a little authority over the subject matter can affect how people respond to the advice and care we're providing. Think about physicians, NPs, PAs, etc. and how they can struggle with getting people to be compliant with taking a pill. I also think of this as the difference between my dental hygienist vs. my dentist telling me I need to floss/brush better.. I hate to say it, but when it's the dentist, it seems to carry more weight.
In terms of putting the cart before the horse, I can appreciate this analogy. I think launching the DPT was a big step, but it needed to happen eventually. It has taken me several years of post-grad work to feel like an 'expert' or even relatively confident with patient care. Years ago, very little 'doctoral' mentoring was available. In fact, as a new DPT, I felt hostility mainly coming from other PTs who were masters trained. Other PTs did not want to challenge me, or even share tips--because I had a doctorate. I was supposed to be a know-it-all. Reality was, I too needed mentoring. Speaking for myself, I do tread lightly, in no way an egomaniac that would warrant distance from others in the clinic. Thankfully, much has changed over the last few years, and now I mentor several new graduates (DPTs) in the clinic, but I push them--hard!! This is what is needed to get that horse back out front. I do the same thing with interns in the clinic, MPTs and DPTs. And they thank me for it. No time for "8-minutes of heaven" in our clinic. At the same time, I am still yearning for someone to push and challenge me. Thank goodness for forums!
< Message edited by T_Thom -- February 2, 2008 10:43:06 PM >
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 6:28:16 PM
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kiwi PT
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T_Thom,
Well said, several good points. I too get many questions on our level training and education with many people assuming its a 2 year community college deal. This is the only time I ever mention that I have a doctoral degree. I have had a few pts who after asking me such questions insist on calling me "doc", I don't stop them but it makes me feel a little weird. Sometimes my wife calls me Dr. Hot too.
Kyle PT
_____________________________
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 6:51:34 PM
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Crevidence
Posts: 138
Joined: November 16, 2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TexasOrtho
What I believe is under discussion is should we be referred to as doctors in a clinical setting. I am not staunchly opposed to this, BUT I still think people will get understandibly confused. I also go back to my original points that we don't have to be doctors to be important.
Because our skill set is unique, we cannot be doctors, pharmacists, dentists etc...we ARE physical therapists who happen to possess doctoral degrees in the field.
Why can't this be good enough?
You seem to be using doctor as meaning medical doctor only. I don't think any one in this thread intends that we be seen as MD's. I call my dentist and podiatrist doctor and they are both in clinical settings. I don't think they can help with the management of my allergies. The general population would not either. They would know their practitioner acquired a doctoral degree and are experts in their respective fields. I am sure there was some minor confusion at first with these professions but no harm should have come of that if the practitioner practiced within their scope.
Public perception is important. Look at us as a broad group. I am generalizing : MPT to the public probably means the PT has a decent level of education to perform well in their career. DPT more than likely indicates to teh public that person is an EXPERT in the field and a very highly educated professional. This could potentially elevate us in the eye of the public, and ultimately make us seem more important and valued to the consumer. Perception=reality. Who doesn't want more respect and status for their profession? Who doesn't want their profession to potentially be perceived as more important? Look at what it has done for MD's/DO's/DC's/OD's etc..
I personally think the use of the title is pompous across all professions, but feel it is silly not to take advantage of it (especially since we acquire doctoral level degrees).
< Message edited by Crevidence -- February 2, 2008 7:04:18 PM >
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 2, 2008 11:34:15 PM
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SJBird55
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I suppose stating I got my degree out of the Cracker Jack box must not help anyone's perception, huh? ;) I believe I've actually told a patient that I was sitting up really late one night and called a 1-800 number and ordered my physical therapy degree for $30,000. (I thought it was a great bargain!) For some reason patients don't always take me seriously, I wonder why. Now, the times that I have clearly stated that I'm just an educated idiot, for some reason, there is never any argument to that statement.
I look at the whole situation in a very simplistic manner. I tend to believe that using the term "doctor" for those in our profession is potentially a ploy to have a patient have a first impression before even knowing or meeting the professional. How many idiot physicians have you worked with? I do believe though, that whether you have a DPT or no DPT, your character, your communication style and your art/ability to build a relationship are probably key factors in creating an impression. (Your credentials may look impressive, but that impression can and will be altered by the above 3 things.) If the above 3 things are palatable to the patient AND you are effective in your delivery of the plan to reach the patient's goals, that patient probably doesn't care about whether you are DPT or not a DPT. I suppose you could say that I also believe reputation will trump education.
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 27, 2008 3:32:32 AM
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jonathan_PTRP
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Dr. or not! as long as we can save life..
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MKSOL
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 27, 2008 11:53:32 PM
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kamryn
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??
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RE: Should PTs be called "Dr." - February 28, 2008 9:22:46 AM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
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Yes, I save lives daily. My balance exercises and minisquats really are lifechangers. WHAAAT?? That was a ridiculous post Jonathan, Are you TFCCHIRO from ChiroWeb?
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