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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr."
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 12, 2005 9:40:00 AM
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hmgross
Posts: 292
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From: Minnesota
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PS
I wonder if Ashton refers to Demi as an "old dog" :p
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Holly Gross PT
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 12, 2005 10:20:00 AM
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vt2c1ms
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From: Kansas
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That's right. You are only as old as you feel. I'm sure Ashton refers to Demi as his Good Ol'Doggy Dog Queen :) .
Mark
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 12, 2005 5:51:00 PM
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Synergy
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From: Texas
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In regards to Demi being an "old dog", as long as she doesn't bite, I'd let her sit on my lap anytime! :) Did I just say that?
Anyways, I guess this is why I come to this forum...to take nothing but exceptional advice from colleagues who have been practicing 20-30 years longer than I have...maybe even more.
Old dogs? Old dogs my ass. :)
*stands and applauds*
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Chris Adams, PT, MPT
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 12, 2005 7:19:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
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From: West Palm Beach
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Who votes we end this topic and lock it down?
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 12, 2005 7:21:00 PM
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FLAOrthoPT
Posts: 1011
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From: West Palm Beach
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do dr.pepper and mr.pibb taste all that different? would you drink the Dr.Pepper because of its name, should the Dr. Pepper cost more? Did MR.Pibb sell itself short of being the Doctor of Pruney Bitey Cola Drinks? Food for thought
now lets shut this topic down
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 13, 2005 1:37:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
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From: USA
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Dr Pepper?
Reminds me of the chiropractic school brochures I got before I went to college...."He's a doctor, she's a doctor, wouldn't you like to be a doctor, too?"
The thread does seem to have run it's course...
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 13, 2005 1:41:00 AM
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dosrinc
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From: Bonita Springs
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I agree, in fact any thread that mentions Ashton Kutcher should automatically be terminated.
Rick
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 13, 2005 8:48:00 AM
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hmgross
Posts: 292
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From: Minnesota
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Well, I was hoping that would do the trick, but the post lives on...... :(
Maybe we can let it expire, DNR.
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Holly Gross PT
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 8:43:00 AM
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mcap56
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From: New York, NY
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I have read so many of these that my head is spinning. I think I had some good points in my head about 30 posts ago.......oh well....I'll try.
1. The Doctor title thing is a touchy subject. True. But it is being overblown. Most, if not all therapists with DPTs I have met go by their first names. I have never seen one use the title Dr. in a hospital. If someone wants to set up a private practice however, perhaps it would help a bit on the shingle. I don't have a problem with that.
2. The DPT is only part of an evolving process. Most MS programs were 3 years anyway. Whether or not the DPT should be awarded is secondary. What matters most is the orientation and the preparation. I went to a good school but I can tell you, there is far more rigour now, especially in terms of research in the programs. The quality of applicant may not be what it was 15 years ago because of the number of programs. But that isn't going to change, DPT or not.
3. The bar for faculty positions is much, much higher than it was even just 10 years ago.
4. We should be looking at where the profession is going instead of debating who should be called doctor. Did any of you see the research at the CSM? Study after study, much of it clinical. Considering the resources typically available, this was impressive. Many, many therapists going on for PhDs, EdDs, DscPTs, etc.
5. The average student coming out now is much better prepared in terms of research and in a few other areas. Most of the PTs I know who have gone for T-DPTs, even board certified faculty, have expressed positive opinions about the process.
This all could have been acheived by changing programs but not necessarily going to the DPT. I know. However, the question to ask is "why not." We know it is not a pancea but how exactly could it hurt? The only arguement to be made against it is that 3 years may be too much. I think in some cases, it is. However, the APTA was mandating changes that for most MS programs, would have resulted in a 3 year curriculum anyway.
So, I don't think we should be so focused on titles and degrees. Instead look at where the profession is and where we are going. About 5 years ago, everyone was screaming for more autonomy, more research, more EBP, and better preparation. With some fits and starts, with some challenges, I think we are a lot further along than I would have anticipated. There is reason for optomism. Don't get caught in a fight about titles.
Mcap
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 3:19:00 PM
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jimptdpt
Posts: 29
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From: Medway, Ma, usa
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I've been sitting on the sidelines on this debate to long. Everyone says "What is a DPT going to get me. " or I already know differential diagnosis/pharmacology/etc. People say they would rather take CEU courses that are more relevant, or you get more out of them. I have heard this time and time again.
If you make the same argument about CEU courses that people say about the DPT people would think your crazy. How about "What am I going to get out of a spine course taught by Rocobado, Paris, etc? I already learnt spinal mechanics in school. I read all the journals on spine. How about my favorite, I think I know more about the spine than a neurosurgeon.
People will say, how is this going to help my patients. Some one, a hundred posts ago, stated how couldn't it. Your learning, Any and all information relevant to what type of therapy your practicing could only help your patients.
People say "It's to expensive", yet Dr. Ball has already listed some schools that cost only $2000 - $3000. My analogy that I always tell my patients about buying a mattress, I will try it here. We will spend $30,000 on a car that will last us 4 -5 years and we use it less than a hour a day, but we will not spend $1,000 on a mattress that will last us years and spend 8 hours a night on. How about our education, you will have this information for the rest of your life. Yet $2000 - $3000 is to much. Going back to school will also show your children that school doesn't stop in high school or your undergraduate degree, that it is life long learning.
When I went for my OCS, people thought it was stupid. They said, what is that going to get you. I didn't get any more money, and it cost me to take the exam. When I went for my DPT, They asked me the same thing. I didn't get anymore money. So why would someone get their DPT. For many personal reasons, but definately not for money, or to call themselves Doctor. Most go for their DPT because they love what they do. I know that's why I did. I remember my first day in PT school, the instructor told me that I would have to work two jobs to make ends meet. I definately did not go to school to make money. Most of the 40 year old remeber this. We had the good fortune to have increased salaries over the past few years.
By the way, I am one of those 40 year old therapist, who started with a BS.
My reasons for getting the DPT was personal. I love what I do. I feel blessed that I have the opportunity to help people everyday. Tomorrow my first patient is at 6:30 am and I will finish at 7:30 pm. I will have an hour off for lunch. I am not in private practice, I do not get any more money for this long schedule. I do this because of the needs of the clinic and my patients. My patients mostly work and need early AM and late evenings. I look forward to tomorrow and every day after that. If I could use a quote from a movie "I consider myself the luckiest man alive." (echo)
Jim Hosker PT, DPT, OCS
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 4:30:00 PM
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Jon Newman
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Hi Jim,
I think you summed up the best reason to pursue the DPT and except for those that are getting it by default (because that is the degree their school offers) I expect all those who have pursued it are getting it for the reasons you state so well.
I think any negativity for it can be traced back to those evangelizing the virtues of pursuing it to point of suggesting that those who don't are sloths and knuckleheads or are somehow "left behind". You seem to have a good understanding that it is the passion for the profession and learning (in its various venues) that is important. I'm also glad you decided to participate; keep it up (why wait?).
jon
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 5:59:00 PM
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vt2c1ms
Posts: 74
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From: Kansas
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Jim,
What a way of putting it. Pursuing a DPT has nothing to do with Dr. title rights, it is an "inner passion" that I believe every PT should WANT (maybe can't right now) to pursue for the sake of the profession. As stated before, pursuing more knowledge can only help you, the profession and most important, the patients. Even if financially you can't make ends meet in pursuit of the DPT, it should be on every PT's "want to do" list.
Mark
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 6:55:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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Well, I've also heard it said, and said it myself, "You study for yourself, you get degrees for others" and I think that is part of the argument.
Diane,
You mentioned that MD's have the right to make the decision about when death occurs and that makes them special. I just read on a chiro site that chiro's are allowed to sign death certificates in 23 states. Ain't that grand?
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 8:13:00 PM
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tamil
Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2005
From: houston
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Everone should keep away from unaccredited schools. Why should anyone join an unaccredited school?
It is a waste of time and money. Even if you are not able to join any accredited school.
Moreover, for those who like to wrok abroad, foreign countries do not recognize degrees from unaccredited schools.
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t
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 15, 2005 9:09:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
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From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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[QUOTE]I just read on a chiro site that chiro's are allowed to sign death certificates in 23 states. Ain't that grand?[/QUOTE]Hmmnn. Before I believe it I'd like to see it verified from somewhere else besides a chiro site. I thought passport verifications were the max that chiros could sign.
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 16, 2005 4:41:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
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From: USA
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Tamil-
Don't beleive the topic of unaccredited schools has come up. Perhaps you are lost?
Diane-
I find your personal definition of who should be called "Doctor" interesting. It seems now, if Randy is right, that DCs are indeed in that group now. Does that change your opinion of them? Should it?
Jim-
Great post, man....
J
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 16, 2005 4:55:00 AM
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Diane
Posts: 1507
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From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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[QUOTE]It seems now, if Randy is right, that DCs are indeed in that group now. Does that change your opinion of them? Should it?[/QUOTE]No. And no. If true it means the good ship SS Health Care in the US is tossing around with its steering wheel spinning and its rudder broken off and sucking H2O from a torpedo through its hull.
Randy, would you post a link to the actual statement you found? It's OK to PM it if you don't want to put it here and jostle the thread.
I really need to see verification of this (not your assertion Randy, rather something more official the chiro board) before I will swallow it. If chiro schools
1. are as uneven in their product as I have been led to think, and if the chiros coming out..
2. aren't trained to spot lifethreatening conditions, in fact are taught to think "adjustment" can override pathology,
3. aren't trained in lifesaving measures (interventions).. (who knows maybe they can do basic first aid same as anyone else, but they can't think of or do what ER doctors can)
...then I don't see how they would have managed to get lisence to pronounce. Chirx, do you know anything about this?
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 16, 2005 5:43:00 AM
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lynx
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Determining cause of death or any other diagnosis other than bogus "subluxation diagnosis" was never taught at Life University when I attended in the 90s and isn't in the CCE chiropractic accreditation standards so don't give the claim much weight. There is no standardization in state licensing. One state allows chiropractors the widest scope (Oregon) and allows them to give injections and do minor surgery while many others (Michigan) limit them to diagnosing and treating subluxations only. In Michigan a chiropractor can't even use physiotherapy on a patient or manipulate their extremity. CCE has admitted to past conflict of interest in a 2001 "Open Letter" and allows subluxation based schools to not integrate diagnosis. The idea that such an unstandardized profession is properly trained to determine death is crazy. Most likely it was a legal grab along with doing school physicals gained through lobbying.
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 16, 2005 6:35:00 PM
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tamil
Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2005
From: houston
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To Jason,
u r right. I did not that the topic has 5 pages. So, I was responding to comments in page 1.
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t
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Re: Should PTs be called "Dr." - May 16, 2005 6:36:00 PM
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tamil
Posts: 37
Joined: January 12, 2005
From: houston
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To Jason,
u r right. I did not know that the topic has 5 pages. So, I was responding to comments in page 1.
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t
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