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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - August 19, 2006 12:26:00 PM
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nari
Posts: 1568
Joined: November 14, 2003
From: Australia
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Rob, thank you for this.
From what you have posted, it would seem that:
Facet joints do not refer pain (which I have known before) BUT nearby/adjacent nerves down to the nervi nervorum, etc do. Joints can't refer pain - it's not in their duty statement. BUT referral of pain to a more distal structure is well known....and treated in a number of ways, including ginger's methods.
Look forward to the full text.
Nari
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - August 19, 2006 5:00:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 208
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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You'll be suprised at what you see the results about the joint...
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - August 20, 2006 2:06:00 PM
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proud
Posts: 864
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Rob PT,
In that study, do they mention the outer 1/3 layers of the annulus as a posssible source of referred pain?
I have read an article about this previously, I just can't seem to find it.
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - August 20, 2006 3:38:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 208
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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Yes, I'm pretty sure it said that.
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - August 21, 2006 3:25:00 PM
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ginger
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Joined: February 26, 2005
From: Melbourne Victoria
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Rob and Nari , I haven't checked this thread for a while. To your question about the research Rob, I have many things in common with Nari's approach and understanding of the effects of spinal movement therapies. It is clear to me that the brain plays a significant role in the immediate effcts of Mobs. I contend there to be a local one , a reflexive effect also, where by local tissues provide feedback such that immediate change to muscle behaviour and sensation is mediated by both the flow of synovium to cartilage under oxygen debt. Also that nerves adjacent to these joints and intimate to the muscles themselves are localy at the effect of the tightness and irritations associated with hypertonicity. An immediate pain relieving effect is reliably produced with continuous mobs, further pain relief may occur over twenty four hours , suggestive of a metabolic change consistant with the dissipation of substrates associated with inflammation.
As Nari points out , it is nerves that feel not joints. It is the activity associated with both an inflammatory event and muscle hypertonicity that explains the commonly experienced distal pain and behaviour changes. These are interpreted by the brain of course and a picture of pain emerges. The introduction of chemicals into joints and immediate spaces will induce pain or relief to only those structures it comes into contact with . It could be that the complex nature of a spondyl and its interactions with nerves in the circumstances of hypertonic muscles and irritated nerves defines a nervous relationship that is not well mimiced by the introduction of chemistry. I can only assume so , as the every day benefits of mobs in my experience goes well beyond those proposed and or refuted by this study.
_____________________________
Ubi est mea anaticula cumminosa?
The Grand Pediculator
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - September 1, 2006 10:31:00 PM
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rv36116
Posts: 208
Joined: August 5, 2006
From: Texas
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I have the full text of the article, but I'm not sure how to PM it to you guys, as that choice seems to be limited currently.... if you add the following the the website in my signature, you'll find the text
/articles/TOLBPS.pdf
It's a pretty interesting read.
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Re: Mobilisation of facet joints, the continuous method - September 2, 2006 7:18:00 AM
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rwillcott
Posts: 340
Joined: March 20, 2006
From: Canada
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Rob PT,
Great article! I had heard of this article before but never had an opportunity to read it. Dr. Kuslich forces us to question the tissues we are treating in patients with back pain. Spending time on assessing a hypomoblie z-joint seems futile.
In the last paragraph he states that it is important to decompress the disc and nerve and stabilize the motion segment. I think this is a very important comment on his part. This fits into the McKenzie model as well as the Australian model of stabilization. He also comments on the comprssed nerve with scar tissue can increase the sensitivity due to compression and tension of the nerve root an outer annulus. This goes along with neural mobilization techniques and the concept of an adherent nerve root.
Thank you for posting this article. This strengthens my beliefs in both the assessment and treatment approach I take with my patients.
Cheers,
Rob
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