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hiring massage therapist
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hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 8:53:21 AM
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rwillcott
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From: Canada
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Hello. I am looking at hiring a massage therapist and am unsure of the best way to pay them. I am thinking of charging them a flat rate as rent. However, if they become busy I want to be able to make a percentage of what they are bringing into the clinic. I will be providing a room and receptionist to help with billing/booking.
I was hoping someone would have some experience with this.
Rob
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 9:14:42 AM
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PTupdate.com
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Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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Hey Rob,
Patients ask me all the time about that service. I have to remind them about how noisy my place gets when it's hopping, and that all my rooms are packed. My wife is a massage therapist, and even she notes that would not be the most relaxing environment!
As long as your charging a fare rate for massage (say $50-$60/hour), the cost per session on your end should not be that high. It's a cash service, so no billing is done, you have insurance to consider (the massage therapist may have their own, but you still need coverage as they are on your property), linens, etc. If you took $25 per session yourself, the rest along with tip would be a good reimbursement for the therapist. Plus, you are getting people in and out your door, most with MSK problems that need more than massage. This person could then feed those your way.
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 10:39:31 AM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
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I wonder if that reinforces the general public's perception of what PTs are or if maybe juxtaposing MT with PT would be a good thing to educate the public about how what we do is different.
Many of the uninformed think of us as glorified massage therapists anyway.
What are your thoughts on that point?
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 10:46:33 AM
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rwillcott
Posts: 427
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From: Canada
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Thanks for the input. I am next to a large call center. Human resources informed me that they are heavy users of massage. I thought that it would be a good way to bring more people into my clinic. I see it as a way to educate people that their is more than massage and the PT can help me with chronic neck pain, carpal tunnel etc.
I assure you that once in my clinic they will see and know the difference between massage and PT.
Rob
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 11:29:34 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
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From: Barrie, Canada
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A common trend here is the percentage arrangement. Gross is split 60-40, to 70-30 (smaller number for the clinic), with often a hard cap after which the MT gets a larger slice or all of it. Depends on the marketing they do or not, on the linen situation, the yellow pages costs, etc etc. It may help you to simply check with other PT clinics in your community.
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 12:18:32 PM
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PTupdate.com
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From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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Bas: Perhaps you are right. I even cringe when one of my employees says "Head into your room Martha, I'll be in to give you your massage in a minute"
But, I am known as a guy who gets patients better, and if people think it's because of my "massage", or even if I stick a blob of peanut butter on their forehead, I really don't care. It becomes part of the identity crisis that ends up being detrimental to many therapists.......too worried about their image, and "I don't get no respect"
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 6, 2008 11:11:56 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
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From: Barrie, Canada
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BTW, Duff, here the MT's services are covered by many insurance companies, so there is billing to be done- sometimes direct-, as well as scheduling . Plus, ONLY Spa treatments are expected to get tips - NEVER in a clinical setting. MTs have their own insurance - liability and damage and legal support against complaints; their "independent practice" license is invalid without that insurance. PT clinic business insurance here includes all incidents on the premises.
But that is all "here" - Ontario.
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 12, 2008 12:46:28 PM
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rwillcott
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From: Canada
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What do you think of 60/40 with 40 for the clinic and the MT is self-employed? She said she would look after a lot of the booking and billing as well. She will supply her own bed, linen, equipment etc.
Rob
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 12, 2008 1:57:23 PM
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OAK
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Be careful of this setup. If someone in Canada is paid a commision they are considered an employee.
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 17, 2008 8:02:27 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1191
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From: Barrie, Canada
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That`s why we don`t pay commission - we ARE paid by the MT for all the work-space-services we provide. And this includes keeping track of scheduling, billing, and end-of-month tallies as well as GST.
As long as the MT is working in more than one location, and can show that she-he is an independent pactitioner with marketing and work-related costs (linen etc), all is fine.
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 17, 2008 8:04:17 PM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1191
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From: Barrie, Canada
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Rob, I got your message - I was in Disneyland - and your PM inbox is not working. PM me again with your email address please.
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 18, 2008 2:16:41 AM
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james079
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Rob,
In BC if you have an employee you are obliged to submit their income tax, CPP and employment benefits. An "associate" or some other self employed can be paid their 60/40 and cover the government deductions themselves. However if they do not pay for some reason the clinic will be held responsible and will have to cover the deficiences.
Jim McGregor
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 18, 2008 11:43:12 AM
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OAK
Posts: 184
Joined: September 1, 2003
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sebastian Asselbergs
That`s why we don`t pay commission - we ARE paid by the MT for all the work-space-services we provide. And this includes keeping track of scheduling, billing, and end-of-month tallies as well as GST.
As long as the MT is working in more than one location, and can show that she-he is an independent pactitioner with marketing and work-related costs (linen etc), all is fine.
http://www.canadabusiness.ca/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1102079893391&lang=en&pagename=CBSC_FE%2Fdisplay&c=InfoResources
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 19, 2008 6:50:40 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1191
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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OAK, those are exactly the guidelines to be used when setting up relationship with another professional. They have been circulated by our association (it pays to read that stuff....). Hence my contention that we don't pay commission - we check that all those issues are covered. It needed mentioning in detail - thanks.
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Mundi vult decipi
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 19, 2008 7:10:32 AM
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rwillcott
Posts: 427
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From: Canada
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Thanks guys. I'm going to have a talk with my accountant today and mention my concerns. I've talked with other PT's and MT's in the area and most are self-employed with the 60/40 relationship. However, maybe they've been taking a chance.
Rob
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 19, 2008 11:51:36 AM
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OAK
Posts: 184
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sebastian Asselbergs
OAK, those are exactly the guidelines to be used when setting up relationship with another professional. They have been circulated by our association (it pays to read that stuff....). Hence my contention that we don't pay commission - we check that all those issues are covered. It needed mentioning in detail - thanks.
It seems like you're crossing a fine line. Under your system, nobody would ever have to pay an employee commission. I doubt the government would agree with you.
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 19, 2008 1:54:30 PM
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rwillcott
Posts: 427
Joined: March 20, 2006
From: Canada
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As I'v learned with most goverment decisions, everything is a grey area. Half the time it all depends who you talk to. I think they just make it up as they go along!
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RE: hiring massage therapist - March 20, 2008 7:46:58 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1191
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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OAK, I think you misunderstand my posts.
An MT can be an independent practitioner in a clinic here, if he or she has 1) more than one place of work (i.e. works elsewhere - for salary or not), 2) provides a significant amount of her or his own work materials (linen, oils or creams, table, or a combination thereof), 3) has full control over his or her own schedule for patients (workhours), 4) sets his or her own fee schedule, and 5) he or she pays their own income tax and deduction schedule. It is necessary to understand that all five points are required before he or she is truely considered an associate or subcontractor in Ontario.
The "split" is just a way of speech: the MT charges the client, the front desk staff provides the schedule and actual billing service, keeps track of the monthly gross, and the MT pays the clinic a percentage of the gross as payment for the space, support staff work, utilities, and possible marketing costs.
I do not see this any different than what the link you posted proposes, OAK. Take a close look at the article - you'll find that nothing that I propose to use as guidelines is in contravention with those rules.
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