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What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors having on the physiotherapy business?
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What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors having ... - July 28, 2006 2:36:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
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Hello,
If you check on the yellowpages website you will see that there is about 2500 physio businesses in CANADA and about 7500 chiro businesses in CANADA and about 3500 chiro businesses in ontario versus about 1400 physio businesses. What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors having on the physiotherapy businesses in Canada and/or the US if any .
Any thoughts?
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 29, 2006 6:19:00 PM
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ONstudentPT555
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Anybody ...? Any thougths..? As a student I am just curious how PTs in the field feel about this? Is it irrelevent?
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 29, 2006 8:30:00 PM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
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There are a pile of PTs working in the hospitals so the numbers are probably much more even that it appears. Physical therapy has just begun to press for independent PT ownership of PT clinics. The numbers you cited will probably change over the next 10 years.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 1:43:00 AM
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SJBird55
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Physical therapists not only function in private practices and hospitals (inpatient, outpatient, rehab, neonatal units), but also universities, the local school districts, skilled nursing facilities, home health agencies, physician owned clinics... in other words, there are many options for physical therapists here in the states where as the main common option for chiropractors is to own their own business.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 5:29:00 AM
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ONstudentPT555
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Off course there are many more PTs than DCs and many more job options for PTs. Here in Canada PTs have had direct access everywhere for sometime now. So I guess my question was really if anyone thought that the saturation of all those Chiropractic clinics could, would or is having an effect on private physio owned clinics as competition. PTs can offer much more to the public and have a much better working relationship with the rest of the healthcare industry but I thought there may still be some effects? Any thougths...?
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 5:55:00 AM
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jbird007
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quote:"PTs can offer much more to the public and have a much better working relationship with the rest of the healthcare industry"
ONstudent, Could explain your rationale? I believe (and always have) that PT's and DC's have great services to offer and had never looked at my service as "better". We do different things, we are NOT Pepsi and Coke. DC's have their weaknesses and strengths, as do PT's. Throughout my career I have continually seen this tug of war with much of it just biased attitudes from handed down myths. IMO, It has only escalated in recent years. When you inform your patient to avoid DC's because they are quacks or "not-as-good", how does that make you look, and what will the patient REALLY think of your claims?
I will refrain from being argumentive but I am curious to your comments and any other PT's who feel that way. If what you say is true, please explain how you have come to that decision. Thanks and good luck in your future!
Sincerely,
J
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 7:04:00 AM
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drbuddy
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They have pride for their profession. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. PTs think they are better than DCs, DCs think they are better than PTs, Arabs think their better than Jews, Americans think they are better Canadians, etc.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 7:22:00 AM
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Jeep
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Smelly alert!!
The same(sock puppet) was posted to Botty"s site!!
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 7:30:00 AM
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ONstudentPT555
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Well my intention was never to start a debate about which profession is better because that is pointless and can go on for forever.
I was wondering what effect if any the saturation of chiropractic clinics was having on the PT owned clinics?? anybody?
My thoughts on the other issue is that I think PT as a profession needs to really distance itself from the chiropractic profession. I have noticed that some Clinics run by chiropractors are offering physiotherapy as well (at least in Canada). I find this disturbing because it seems like they are using PTs to bill for something they cannot provide. I cannot uderstand why a PT would work under a chiropractor. From what I understand PT's traing is much more vigerous and the schooling is from a reputable university not a career college so students during the undergrad years had to really work hard to keep thier GPA high enough to be accepted to PT (You needed a 3.65 GPA just to get invited to an interview at the school I go to here in Canada).
I am not saying all chiropractors are bad people infact I know individuals who are now in chiropractic school and are very nice individuals. I actually feel sorry for the chiro students after getting themselves in up to 120 grand of debt and getting stuck with a profession that can lead them down a very unstable path. I feel the chiro colleges are more to blame then anything esle for selling all the lies and false promises.
Overall my main point is that the PT profession should really distance itself from the chiropractic profession.
PTs should run their own clinics and not get themselves mixed up with the chiropractic field.
Thats just my opinion.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 8:40:00 AM
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jbird007
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Buddy,
One can have pride for their profession without degrading the others.
ONstudent,
Your FACTS are incorrect and I will not even attempt to address your opinions, especially if you are a Botnickologist. Little Alan is the mini-version of Barretts Quackwatch. Soon Mr. Botnick will be getting called into court like his Big Daddy.
JBird
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 8:50:00 AM
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dfjpt
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ONstudent, I would sincerely hope that you complain loudly and vociferously to the provincial PT college if it's true that chiros are claiming to provide PT where you live. The use of that term and its protection is the college's business. It might not be aware this is going on... so TELL them. They can then take legislative action to protect the term. Chiros know no decent boundaries, respect none; I guess think they've been chosen by God to flatten all of them. They might understand smart legislative slaps however.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 10:13:00 AM
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ONstudentPT555
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jbird...
Where is all this anger coming from? What is a Botonologist ....if you are referring to a site started by allen botnick which I came a across about two days .. I posted there to see what peoples opinion was on the saturation of the chiropractic profession and how its effecting PT?
You bluntly stated my facts where incorrect which leaves me to believe that you are not properly informed about what a fact is because the things I stated are true. Getting into PT is much more competitive with a GPA of about 3.65 just get invited for an interview (this is fact you can ask the Canadian PT programs). The huge Chiro debt is a fact you can check the tutition costs on the chiro school website. About the saturation of chiro.. well you can just check the yellow pages of any city and you can see what I am talking about.
I dont want to start a chiro bashing session. I am sure there are some chiros with good intentions who would like to help people get better.
dfjpt,
Yes I find it worriesome that some chiros are saying that they can offer physiotherapy .. I think some of the clinics may have PTs working with them.. most of the chiro clinics I dont think do though. I will try to find out more about the legislation about the physiotherapy term.
I strongly think PTs need to really distance themselves from chiros as a profession.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 12:15:00 PM
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jbird007
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It is easier to focus and become the best at what YOU do, then worry about what everybody else is doing.
i.e. 4 PT clincs on the corner, only one has a 2 week waiting list..the others are in the red and the other is closing down. What is the secret?
The last I heard DC enrollment is down and many new grads are dropping like flies in private practice. With the agenda of "owning manipulation by 2015" and direct access service the PT future looks bright.
JBird
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 30, 2006 1:46:00 PM
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dosrinc
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Really guys and girls, arent we all out here just trying to make a living,
ONstudent, as a student PT I would warn you not to be so cavallier about burning bridges so early in your career
As long as the guy in the clinic next to you, be it chiro, PT, whatever is doing things legally and ethically, as long as PT's dont try to sell that they or doing chiropractic and chiro's dont try to call what they do PT, cant we all just work for the benefit of our patients and try to get along, maybe even help eachother out?
Sorry, getting a bit tired of all the bitching from both sides
Rick
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 31, 2006 5:06:00 AM
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Lehmkuhler
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If you believe the utilization statistics that I've heard, only 10-20% of a given population utilizes chiropractors. From that perspective, chiro's are a long ways from "saturation".
From the other side of the fence, I do think that PT's are positioning themselves well over the next couple of decades. However, I think value will determine the health care as 3rd party pay becomes obsolete for more of the population due to cost. How that will affect both sides, it will be interesting...
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 31, 2006 3:35:00 PM
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docj04
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I often wonder how and why some PT's assert the blanket statement that PT schooling is more rigorous and intensive/in depth than Chiro. I can't speak for all Chiro schools, as some pride themselves on the fact that they adhere to the "old school" Chiro approach, but the one that I attended was quite integrated and "progressive" in it's approach. A three year straight curriculum averaging 27 credit hours per trimester is quite rigorous if you ask me. I KNOW that my science/anatomy/diagnostic education was substantially more detailed and comprehensive than that of the PT that will be contracting in our new clinic.
Now, before I get labled as a PT basher or whatever, I might mention that I am about 2 weeks from officially opening a multi-discipline clinic with Chiro, PT, OT, and SLP. I feel as though we will ALL benefit from the ability to provide virtually ANY type of rehab/therapy that a patient case may call for.
BTW, I can say I KNOW the things I've posted B/C that PT and I have the same Exercise Phys. BS from the same college, and we are now engaged. ;)
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - July 31, 2006 8:51:00 PM
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nari
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docj04
I agree with your sentiments. We can learn from each other, which includes, perhaps, overlooking eah other's faults/philosophy/whatever.
Nari
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - August 1, 2006 4:32:00 AM
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jbird007
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Good luck Docj,
I enjoy seeing DC's and PT's getting along. In the last 5 years I have seen an increase in MD's and DC's working together as well. It is a win-win situation for all.
Jbird
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - August 2, 2006 3:01:00 AM
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docj04
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Thanks Nari and jbird007. We're all pretty excited too. Also, just yesterday we were contacted by a D.O. that was very interested in our facility and has "a few back patients that I be more than happy to send your way"(for chiro). Would this happen if we were not multi-discipline? Probably not, so it goes to show that working together opens more doors than fighting each other close.
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Re: What affect is this saturation of Chiropractors hav... - August 2, 2006 4:54:00 AM
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drbuddy
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The central dogma of a certain sect of chiropractic is unscientific...
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