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Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience.
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Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - July 31, 2007 8:10:46 PM
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jsl_pt
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Hello all, long time reader, first time poster. I have been lurking a while as "guest" and finally decided to become more involved in the boards. I am taking the OCS test in 2008. I graduated PT school with an MPT in May of 2006. I have always looked forward to being able to get the OCS certification, but am a little worried about my experience. I keep up to date with PT Journal, etc. and will study other material like crazy during the next 7-8 months. Basically I was wanting to hear from other people who took the test relatively fresh out of school and what they thought? Were you ready? Does experience play a big role? I didn't want to wait too long and forget some of the basic things I learned in the first place. I have always been really eager in life and want to try the OCS. I would appreciate any thoughts!
Justin
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - July 31, 2007 8:34:31 PM
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SJBird55
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I'm not OCS, but instead GCS. If your clinical hours calculated out meet the requirements then that's all that technically matters in regard to experience.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - July 31, 2007 9:49:19 PM
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PTupdate.com
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The OCS has been severely watered down. It used to take at least 5 years, or 10,000 hours of pure ortho experience to sit for the exam. Now, I think its around 2000 hours, or one full time year of work. Hardly enough to make anyone an expert, especially the PT that takes a job straight out of school at a clinic where he/she is the only PT. I've heard a ton of people now fail the exam, and with a $500 application fee, perhaps the revenue is what drives this decision. Either way, it's no different than the flop a few years ago where they gave everybody in the army the opportunity to wear the beret, which had been reserved for those considered elite. I don't feel warm and fuzzy when things like this are done to make everybody feel "special". The OCS was the one thing that was actually earned, not purchased (like all the other letters people put after their names.....take enough courses and you'll get those letters!)
John Duffy, PT OCS
www.PTupdate.com
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 1, 2007 2:36:20 PM
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jesspt
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I think there are a few studies that suggest that greater experience does not necessarily relate to improved outcome. I'll have to look through a few references and see if I can come up with the citation.
Personally, I took the OCS exam eight years after graduation with similar worries - was I ready, etc? In hindsight (which is always 20/20) I wish that I would have taken it several years before then. Having an analytical mind and good problem solving skills, as well as a good command of anatomy and physiology, are far more important that racking up a bunch of hours of experience prior to sitting for the exam.
Jess Brown, PT, OCS
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 1, 2007 4:02:47 PM
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USAPT
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Justin,
Search this ortho section for "OCS" topics. There has been much discussion about this in years past. Hope that helps.
-Jason
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 1, 2007 8:49:18 PM
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jsl_pt
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Thanks all for the replies. Jason, I have searched and looked over the other OCS topics and they were very helpful. Jess, thanks for sharing your view experience and thoughts relating to this as well.
Over the last several months I was mulling over the decision as to sign up for the OCS or not. I waited to the last day or so and finally just decided to go for it. You never succeed at anything unless you try. I am young as far as experience goes, but am a fast learner, did well in school and the NPTE, and keep up to date on everything. I am actually looking forward to the OCS as a challenge to myself to prove that I can do it. I just want to excell in everything I do and become more involved in the PT community. I think I just wanted to hear some reassurance that people with a couple years experience had passed the test.
John, I would have to dissagree with you as far as the current status of the OCS as being "watered down." Obviously I don't have quite the same perspective as you because I have not taken the test, etc. But just because they lower the required hours doesn't make it any less meaningful of a certification. If the test is testing the same level of knowlege, it shouldn't matter how long you have been practicing. I have had to reprimand a PT that has been practicing for at least 20 years because he was putting patients at risk, peforming inappropriate interventions, and other stuff that I can't get into. He didn't have his OCS, but since you seem to value experience more, it seems as if you would think he deserved the qualification if he passed the test, but I would not if I passed the test since I have little experience. A watered down certification to me would be if they lower the passing grade, not if they lower the experience requirements. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but that is what it seems.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 2, 2007 12:32:55 PM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
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I graduated PT school in 2000, took the test in 2002 and did fine. My PT school was very heavy in orthopedics though and I contribute most of my success to that. I also went straight to work in a very busy ortho clinic that had some great PT mentors and that probably also contributed.
Good luck.
Alex
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 2, 2007 5:37:29 PM
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jlharris
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From: Nebraska
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Duffy,
It's a mistake to think time=expert. Knowledge is the key to being an expert. Now, often it takes experience to gain that knowledge, but to say OCS is now watered down because you had to wait 5 years is a stretch. IMO, PT school is more evidence based and includes more information than did 10 years ago (as it should if we are truly evolving) so, maybe PT's are now coming out better prepared and do not need 5 years to aquire the knowledge to pass the OCS exam. If one passes the test demonstrating the knowledge, then one should be able to called an OCS.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 4, 2007 10:00:01 PM
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PTupdate.com
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Sorry guys, but I still disagree. When I first heard of the OCS, and when I sat for the exam, the 5 years experience meant the opportunity to see more conditions and find methods to treat that best fit that individual therapist. One year, even in an extremely high volume clinic like mine, does not afford one to see the numerous conditions that are available. The 5 years was one of the components to being an OCS, including passing the exam, and the other factors involved in the application process. Time does not always = expert, but it can. I was just recertified, but did not take the exam. Instead, my professional development portfolio was enough to guarantee my re-cert. And, this portfolio is nothing more than the documentation of experience and proficiency. Plus, the schooling still has not convinced me that a huge advancement has occurred. I am still the ACCE for 12 PT schools, and these kids are not miles ahead of someone 10 years ago (but many think they are)
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 4:35:03 AM
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Kaden
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I agree with John. Someone may be able to pass the OCS exam after 1-2 years experience but we should ask ourselves if this is a good thing? Not everyone passing the OCS exam is equal in clinical ability simply b/c they passed the exam ...but in the publics eye they may be b/c all they see are initials. Remember when an MBA used to mean something but it became so popular and so many places offered some form of MBA program that it became watered down. True there are exceptional PTs with 1-2 years experience who have enough knowledge to call themselves experts but I think this is the exception not the rule. I think if we want to keep the integrity of the initials then requiring a 5-6 year wait would be appropriate.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 8:20:33 AM
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SJBird55
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Resnik and Jensen have already proven that years of experience does not equal expert. In medical journals it has also been proven that frighteningly, the longer a physician has practiced the less evidence the physician uses and the quality of care is suboptimal. Hmmm...
From just a practical, common-sense, life perspective, I think it would be a better idea to have the exam requirements set at a level of hours equal to about 5 years of full time employment (just as the majority of you are saying). I don't take the stance of a watering down affect though. The rationale would be that by that time in one's career, I'd say that most therapists as a whole (any professional actually) begins to get "comfortable." Whenever one begins to get "comfortable," one tends to lose motivation to improve because one believes that their performances are acceptable (especially based on our horribly non-clinical annual "competencies" or annual performance reviews). If one really wanted that OCS or specialty certification right after graduation, well, that person would be motivated to learn, continue to learn and not become quite as complacent. The person would hypothetically be that way because the chances of failing a specialty exam would be greater if the person didn't maintain an ever involving knowledge base. On the flip side... there would also be those therapists that at the 5 year career mark were beginning to feel bored, burned out or just wanting to "prove" their skill and a specialty certification would potentially be what they would want.
Another aspect to consider is how we learn. With whatever route one chooses to become licensed, there is a ton of information learned during the educational years. In one to two years, I don't believe one has learned to appreciate all the intricacies and interactions between the systems of the body. Around the 5 year mark or so, if one were to study and prepare for a specialty exam, the pulling together of the information combined with the clinical patients treated does tend to give little light bulb responses of, "yeah... that's right" or a higher clarification of the experiences experienced because as you study, you now actually have the capability to pull experience into the picture and there is this neat clarity that occurs compared to any studying experience while acquiring your degree.
Also, increasing the clinical hours required also really provides time for a recent graduate to well, pull everything together - potential experience in leadership, communication skills, negotiation skills (we negotiate ALL the time with patients), confidence skills, people skills, delegation skills because we need more than just "book smarts." We need to be able to successfully apply the knowledge. All of that put together combined with a specialty certification is a nice "package." In viewing it as a whole package kind of thing, acquiring a specialty certification 1-2 years out is somewhat premature, in my opinion.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 4:01:55 PM
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jsl_pt
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I just have to once again disagree with everyone who is saying that more experience must be a requirement. While this was not even part of my original question, I will continue in the discussion. I was simply wanting to hear from people who had taken the test to see how difficult it would be to pass with 2 years of experience, not their personal beliefs on how many years should be required. I do appreciate everyone's reply though. Regardless of your beliefs, only 2000 hours are required, like it or not. But on that topic, I still think it is ridiculous to say that people must be held back before they can prove their abilities. If one is confident in their abilities and can pass the test, than they deserve the title of OCS. People are allowed to graduate high school and college if they can pass all classes, or Clep out early if they are smart for their age. I don't think I can say that Joe Cool who put in all 12-13 years of public school and partying along the way gaining that "valuable experience" that makes him an expert before barely graduating at age 18 is more deserving than someone who buckled down and graudated a few or many years before they were 18. Although Joe Cool has the "experience" and both have the degree, I don't think the kid genius is any less deserving than Joe Cool, actually HE may even be more deserving. The experience before the OCS is not validated as to quality of experience. Why not make it 20 years experience while we're at it. Experience is very overrated. Now if you said a residency experience or something similar than that could be a validated point to look at in the future as something to bring more prestige to the OCS, but to just add more generic years of experience means nothing. That is what the point of the test is, to prove knowledge, regardless of how much experience one has. Most PT's while racking up many years of "experience", are not members of APTA, do not keep of with EBP, use microcurrent and US as modalities for all pain and strains, use manipulations for all back pain without following the CPR, don't know how to properly use and apply iontophoresis, and some don't even know how to properly perform MMT or take goniometry measurments correctly. All of the previous are examples that I have seen with my CI's or people I have worked with. All had over 5 years experience and some had 10-20 years. I am so sick of being told to bow down to these idiots because they passed the NPTE 20 years ago and now supposedly have the holy grail of knowledge because they have the oh so coveted "experience." ... End of Rant.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 5:15:55 PM
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jlharris
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From: Nebraska
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Again, I don't buy the belief that 'expert' is directly related to time since graduation. The more time the more of an 'expert' they are? Knowledge is knowledge.
Example: Josh Cleland. I know the people that read these boards know who he is. He graduated from PT school in 2001. Since that time he has earned his tDPT, Phd, OCS, and FAAOMPT, published two books, more scholarly papers than many of my colleagues have ever read and still finds time to treat pt's and teach new PT's. The 5 year argument would put him at just being able to sit for his OCS.
Now, Dr. Cleland is an outlier, but knowlegde is knowledge. If one can pass the test (which I've heard is nothing to bat an eye at) then they are an OCS. It may take me 10 years to acquire the knowledge to pass it; but it may only take Justin 2 years because of talent, drive, and clinical exposure.
I do understand the argument for the need to also be able to apply this knowlege. What's a fair way to do this? I'm not sure what Duffy's "portfolio" is, but maybe there should be a oral or practical aspect in conjuction with the written test? I'm sure those who regulate the OCS didn't just arbitrarily lower the hour requirments. There probably was some rationale for it, which was discussed with many 'experts' to come to the conclusion that the 5 year 'wait' wasn't needed.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 7:45:35 PM
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SJBird55
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jsl... just one of those things that happen with discussion boards - one question is asked, but the person beginning the topic doesn't have control of where the discussion will lead.
The testing requirements are what they are. It's just that some of us disagree with the current requirements. My feeling is that revenue AND politics were behind the deciding factor for requirements. The big push for direct access and being recognized as neuromusculoskeletal experts are probably two key political factors that probably motivated the change. One other slight factor might be the simple fact that we are a society of instant gratification - we really don't know how to wait nor appreciate waiting for anything.
Quite a few of the military PT's acquire specialty certification quite early in their careers also. They are very wise to take any educational, fellowships or post-grad work while they are in the military because once in the civilian world only a paycheck is earned. Most employers in the civilian world do not support furthering education.
Marc might know what the scoop was with lowering the clinical hour requirements. When I took the exam, the hours were higher than they are now and frankly I haven't paid attention to what happened with the requirements and why they changed (I really didn't care because it wouldn't affect me).
jsl, I think the majority of us agree that time since graduation is not the deciding factor as to whether a PT is an expert. I'm sure that those in the field for a lot of years view themselves as "experts," but that is just their own self-perception. I've never bowed down to anyone, especially the ones that conveyed that I should. LOL Generally, the ones that pull that kind of crap are in reality the ones at the bottom of the barrel and have this letter "L" on their forehead that is unseen to them....
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 8:16:44 PM
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PTupdate.com
Posts: 1420
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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jsl, the most recent "angry new grad" joining the posting board. You're right...... smart young advanced new graduates like yourself will just run us old PT's right out of business. Doctors and the public will be dying (perhaps pun intended) to come and see you. They'll want to be the first Grade II SLAP repair patient you've ever seen, because you'll have that OCS and know exactly what to do. Perhaps on my next vacation, I'll get to fly on a jumbo jet with a pilot that took an exam and did not need all those useless required hours of flying time. Then, I'll go diving in the Keys, and I'll do a deep dive on Nitrox....alone, because I took the test and really don't need those crazy required hours of practice and diving under the guidance of a divemaster!!!!!
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 8:41:39 PM
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jsl_pt
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John, I know we both disagree on the topic. However, a useful post would be acceptable instead of one filled with sarcasm, personal insults, etc. Assuming you know anything thing about my past expericences or knowlege base would be extremely naive. I would hope that this discussion board would not be like all the others where people result to personal assumptions and insults just because someone doesn't agree with their opinion. By the way, in all of your examples you stated people who did not have the required hours. I don't see how that applies since I do have my required hours. It is the amount of required hours that we are disagreeing about. I will never base my choice of any type of practicioner based on experience, that is a false indicator of success. I really don't have anything left to say about the original topic as I have posted the reasons I disagree, and get replies like the one from you that serves no point.
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 8:54:18 PM
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PTupdate.com
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You ranted, I respond. Your apology is accepted
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 5, 2007 9:06:19 PM
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jsl_pt
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Four things, and these will probably be the last four things I post on this board, barring any more personal insults.
1. you didn't respond to the rant or even the topic, as I addressed in my previous post. You made personal attacks and assumptions, and tried to make points that didn't correlate to the topic at hand. Once again I rebutted these in my last post, but you still don't respond on the actual facts of the topic. Once again it was a post that serves no purpose to the topic.
2. I didn't apologize so I'm not sure whose apology you are accepting. I have no reason to apologize.
3. Thanks to everyone else who could actually carry on a conversation and discussion about a topic without acting like a child.
4. Like it or not, the future of PT is in the young PT's. It will always be this way. It is people who act the way you do to young PT's who give the bad name to older PT's.
< Message edited by jsl_pt -- August 5, 2007 10:39:41 PM >
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 6, 2007 5:35:57 AM
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jesspt
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From: Illinois
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I didn't know we "old" PTs had a bad name........
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RE: Taking OCS test with 1-2 years experience. - August 6, 2007 11:27:46 AM
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Tom Reeves DPT ATC
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Case in point Duffy. the new grads can't take criticism or deal with sarcasm (spectacular though it was). Football coaches can't yell at kids,no breaking clipboards, Hug. . . I agree that you cannot be considered elite at anything until you have done it for a while. Michelle Wie anyone?
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