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Steroids and professional baseball
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Steroids and professional baseball - August 12, 2005 10:34:00 PM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
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I personally feel that the professional baseball players who test positive for steriod use should be banned from baseball. I am disgusted when I read about Rapheal Palmeiro. I believe that his stats should be completely erased and he should not be eligible for the Hall of Fame. Next in line will be Barry Bonds who mysteriously can not return to playing because of his "knee injury". I believe that he is staying below the radar and will most certainly test positive for steriods. Again, when he is found guilty his stats should be erased from the books and he should be banned from baseball. It is not fair to Willie Mays, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and many others who played the game with natural ability.
I collected these guys baseball cards when I was a kid. If you get a chance take a look at Barry Bonds on his TOPPS rookie card (1987). He was skinny as a rail. The dude is a monster now. Same goes for Canseco, Palmiero, McGuire. They all had to be juicing for many years.
Lastly, if you are going to ban Pete Rose (Pete played with natural ability) for gambling on baseball and lying then you most certainly have to ban these other players for using illegal drugs and lying to congress while under oath.
Terrible thing for baseball.
Go Cards!
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Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 2:40:00 AM
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Jon Newman
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Alex I agree. Drug use in sport in rampant. My favorites (endurance sports) are tainted also (maybe tattooed would be more accurate).
Do you suppose the culture colludes in a way? We want the value added entertainment of home runs, faster times, longer throws, not just the drama of ordinary people in competition.
Although if we leave things to genes and environment it could become an unleveled playing field and the drugs bring everyone closer to the same ability.
Maybe like body building, there could be drug free and freakizoid competitions. I wonder which one would win the consumer's dollar?
jon
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 6:54:00 AM
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AllAboutMovement
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This is a very interesting topic b/c I did an internship after college with a professional baseball team. I don't promote steroid use, but speaking for the 1000's of minor league players trying to make "the show," I can more appreciate what sacrifices they made. Playing everyday for almost 7 months of the year is pretty crazy. Hell working all those days almost killed me :)
The average minor league player makes around $1000 per month(in season)....not including their signing bonus. Many, if not most, of the players were supporting a family back home. I don't have any children, but I couldn't imagine someone else taking my spot b/c he was a little bigger, faster, or stronger......and I worked just as hard in the weight room and practice field. I never realized how rampant steroid use or just the topic of potentially using them were until I started working for professional baseball.
Now, I believe they should they be banned from the sport and any records should be takened away. I think with the stiffer penalties, it will drive the players to play the game "naturally" like the game is supposed to be played.
Until they start adding more innings, longer schedules, triple headers, and heavier balls.....haha I would like to see it played like it was before this whole steroid crap.
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David Westerman, NSCA-CSCS,FES, LMT
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 6:54:00 AM
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Dr.Wagner
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When I was a body builder, the natural contests that I was part of, were subject to lie-detector tests. Very nerve racking. So those contests are out there for those that are interested.
My personal thought are that there should be mandatory testing for all athletes and penalties similar to those in the olympics.
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Dr. Wagner DO
Moderator of Medical Complexity Forum
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 7:12:00 AM
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jma
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There should be testing of all athletes, whether in the high school, collegate, professional and olympics, period.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 10:42:00 AM
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Randy Dixon
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Cost is prohibitive for high school and most collegiate, not to mention right to privacy issues. What I think is the really sad part of this is that the suspension and attention steroids use has gotten has probably had the wrong effect on young athletes. They now see that the best seem to all use steroids, and that steroids played a big part in their being the best. So are they going to want to use them now?
I really wonder how much steroids helps in baseball, it just doesn't seem to be that much of a power thing. Ok, I don't know much about baseball, in fact I think the whole sport should just be termninated.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 10:47:00 AM
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jma
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It should start from the beginning, when young adults start playing competitive team sports. If it isn't reinforced there, the pattern continues to the professional level and doesn't stop until penalties are imposed and reinforced.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 3:48:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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But it's not only competitive athletes that use steroids, in fact, my guess is that they are in a slight minority.
I'm not disagreeing, just expounding on the thought.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 4:29:00 PM
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jma
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Its this slight minority that is setting a bad example for the majority to follow in their footsteps.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 13, 2005 8:33:00 PM
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Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
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Dixon's,
Terminate baseball. That is so unAmerican! :)
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Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 14, 2005 4:30:00 AM
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jma
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Alex, What do you think about the head on collision that happend at the Mets game the other day? Those would be great films to look at.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 15, 2005 2:03:00 AM
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Matthew
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Hi!
Banning steroids doesn't solve the problem.
Athletes nowadays have a lot more options to enhance performance - the latest fad being laser eye surgery (Golf for example).
Matthias
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 15, 2005 8:25:00 AM
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aquatherapysc
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Any way you look at it, professional athletes taking steroids is cheating. They are cheating themselves, their non-doping peers, and the game of baseball. A point was made earlier in the thread regarding the pressure minor players are under and it is only intensified for those who have family. People often make that argument and state that they understand how the players would cave under pressure. It's not logical to take a banned substance, one with very harmful side effects to help you reach a higher level and in return greater compensation. Athletes are taking banned substances and putting themselves at risk, and in many cases shortening their lives. Is a family better served having additional income in the short term and premature death of it's provider or are they better with that individual alive and healthy? If you can't make it on your god given talent, be thankful you made it that far and move onto something else.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 15, 2005 8:45:00 PM
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Randy Dixon
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Surgical enhancements are the next thing in sports. This is going to be harder to control. EPO and tetosterone and who knows what will get closer and closer to being untraceable. It's a race that I'm not sure is winnable.
I was hanging out with Olympians, they are scared to take in anything, sudafed, too much coffee, poppy seeds, alcohol, even worried about eating meat because of clenbuterol and steroids.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 16, 2005 4:08:00 AM
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jma
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As technology improves, detection of enhancing substances should be better. Of course, they could also be improving products to be even more undetectable as well.
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 16, 2005 4:42:00 AM
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Shill
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The current fining system is a slap on the wrist only. A year suspension, without pay, for the first offense, might make one think a bit more.
Studies need to be done,if they havent already been done, on just how possible it is to test postive for steroids through eating meat, and, a reasonable concentration of cold meds needs to be allowed. The FDA needs to move in, to analyze and regulate supplements as well, as you can put just about anything in these nowadays, as long as it sounds herbal. Those guilty by accident should truly be separated from those blatant juicers. Im sure there is a way to do it, and Im sure there are many attorneys ready to figure out how to do it.
If you get a chance, read Jose Canseco's account of juiceball in his book "Juiced". He makes a couple of interesting points to ponder, but mostly it is egotistical banter. It can be read rather quickly, as you wont need to run for the dictionary.
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Steve Hill PT
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 16, 2005 5:34:00 AM
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Jon Newman
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[URL=http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000E7ACE-5686-10CF-94EB83414B7F0000&pageNumber=1&catID=2]Here's the next trend in athletetics.[/URL] It does pose an interesting question. If someone has naturally high Hgb should they be allowed to compete as they have an unfair advantage over their competitors?
Maybe they could have things like hemoglobin classes. I can read the headlines "In the 18g/dL category, the gold medal goes to..."
jon
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[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 16, 2005 7:49:00 AM
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Shill
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You gotta admit, Linkmeister's link is pretty fascinating. Shows a lot of promise for GOOD use, not just for doping.
Jon,
Do you prefer Linkmaster, Linkmeister, Art Linkletter, Linky Tuscadero, Link (Wink) Martindale, Linkin Park, or just plain Jon?
Steve
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Steve Hill PT
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 16, 2005 9:46:00 AM
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Jon Newman
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Missing link or Loose link would be ok but otherwise Jon will do. You can perform all kinds of mental rotations with the ramifications of this type of research. Never a dull moment.
jon
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[URL=http://www.sonymusic.com/clips/selection/30/064887/064887_03_03_30.wav]Evidence[/URL]
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Re: Steroids and professional baseball - August 17, 2005 7:11:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
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I never understood why steriods are different than any other intervention or "edge" athletes want and pursue.
Outlawing something doesn't make it go away, it just puts the whole thing underground where it can really hurt people.
Once we take the "drug war" type crapola out of it, it's just another training booster. One with up and down sides, like all the others.
I don't condone the use of steriods because they are currently illegal and have some health risks, but the harder we push them away, the cleverer people will get about hiding it, and using it without proper medical supervision. I can't work out why that would be a good thing.
Traditional baseball players like the ones Alex mentioned didn't have access to all the sports medicine, training and periodization theory, biomechanics knowledge and training, video tape performance feedback, LASIK vision correction etc either. Why are steriods seen as an unfair and unnatural edge but those types of things are seen as OK? Philosophically, how can we reconcile these things? I don't think we can.
Check this out:
http://techcentralstation.com/081105C.html
Food for thought from your friendly neighborhood libertarian....
:)
J
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Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
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