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Reselling
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Reselling - March 14, 2007 5:06:00 AM
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PhysioThis
Posts: 84
Joined: October 23, 2006
From: New York
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Does anybody sell incidental therapy items to patients (hot packs, cold packs, etc.)??
Seems I get patients daily that want to purchase them from me. Any thoughts on the potential legal ramifications, if any of selling such non-covered items?
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Ed, PT, MTB-XC
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Re: Reselling - March 14, 2007 6:00:00 PM
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ianwvu
Posts: 69
Joined: June 11, 2004
From: Glendale, AZ
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I believe you are unable to sell things to Medicare patients. Other than that, you can sell whatever the hell you think patients will buy.
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Re: Reselling - March 15, 2007 1:48:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1153
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
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Don't know how it is in New York, but here we have rather stringent rules with regards to resale of anything - "conflict of interest rules". We are assumed a "person in a position of authority" in the eyes of patients, and need to give full disclosure of financial interest in the sale, the options of buying elsewhere, and the scientific value of the item sold....
Needless to say - some clinics that sell, don't do this properly and are permanently at risk of disciplinary action (IF they are owned by PT).
I don't sell anything other than my services because of that.
So, check the standards of practice and see if they have anything to say about that. If not - sell, sell, sell.....
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Mundi vult decipi
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Re: Reselling - March 15, 2007 7:29:00 AM
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Karie
Posts: 107
Joined: August 14, 2006
From: Wisconsin
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Don't forget sales tax on items you sell. I don't do it because here in Wisconsin I would be required to do that and do all the recordings to the state in regards to it etc...more paperwork. I give my patients information on where they can find the item. If I know, I tell them where it can be found that it's cheaper-economical. So many of these durable medical places charge mark-ups that are crazy. Internet, direct buy from sources I find are the best sometimes, depending on the item. I personally don't think it's worth the effort to sell the items, but others may.
Karie :-)
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Re: Reselling - March 15, 2007 9:07:00 AM
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orthotherapist
Posts: 206
Joined: February 6, 2007
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I have worked with clinics that provide lists of supplies from various vendors to patients. These lists include commonly requested supplies.
The list is given to patients and it includes the procedure to obtain the supplies (typically calling the company and identifying them as a patient of the clinic). We do not have to worry about the cash/collection/taxes etc. We also do not have to stock/order supplies to have on hand.
The product is typically offered at "professional pricing". We let the patient know that we do not receive any kickback for referring them to these providers and they are free to look elsewhere if they would like.
Patients comment on how quick (usually 1-2 days) they get the supply and on the cost.
Like Karie said its not worth the effort to sell the items - patients also appreciate the fact that you go through the extra effort to save them a little $$
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Re: Reselling - March 18, 2007 5:53:00 PM
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drbuddy
Posts: 429
Joined: July 30, 2005
From: Pennsylvania
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Does anyone know for sure if it is illegal to sell items? I have never seen this stated anywhere.
I sell things in my clinic only because I can get professional pricing and my mark up is much less than anywhere else the items can be bought. I'm talking mostly about either convenience items like pillows, moist heat pads, etc.
Sales tax is not an issue in most states since medical items are exempt. In PA it is, not sure about others.
FYI - If it is taxed, it's as simple as getting a sales tax ID number and keeping track of taxable sales. It's just another column in the accounting records.
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Re: Reselling - March 19, 2007 2:43:00 AM
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Sebastian Asselbergs
Posts: 1153
Joined: September 29, 1999
From: Barrie, Canada
Status: offline
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Buddy I don't think it's "illegal" - just in some provinces/states the standards of practice may have a specific issue with the potential "conflict of interest".
Illegal to me means "against the law" and our practice standards and ethics - at least here - are NOT guided by law (but compliant with), but by our regulating bodies.
i think I can make this post more complicated, but ....Nah - this is enough.
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Mundi vult decipi
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Re: Reselling - March 23, 2007 4:55:00 PM
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PhysioThis
Posts: 84
Joined: October 23, 2006
From: New York
Status: offline
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What if you could get really good pricing and provide the supplies to patients at a profit? Would you do it? What would it do for you bottom line?
"We let the patient know that we do not receive any kickback for referring them to these providers and they are free to look elsewhere if they would like."
Why is this done?
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Ed, PT, MTB-XC
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Re: Reselling - March 23, 2007 6:16:00 PM
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OAK
Posts: 184
Joined: September 1, 2003
Status: offline
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I sell a few small items at my clinic. The only stipulation our college has about this is that the patient knows that they are not required to buy the items as part of their treatment.
I don't aggressively push the items as this may look uprofessional.
The taxes are actually very easy to figure out. If you have a good program it should only take a few minutes per year to calculate.
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Re: Reselling - March 25, 2007 12:56:00 PM
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VagusX
Posts: 212
Joined: March 26, 2003
From: Savannah, GA, USA
Status: offline
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I don't ever push items on people, but I will strongly encourage a person to try a product if I have a good idea that it will be helpful. I.E. I will strongly recommend that a person with Posterior Tibialis Grade I and II picks up a pre-fab pair of semi-rigid orthotics. Whether they get it from me or the other guy, it doesn't really matter. Same thing goes for a new pair of shoes if thats the case, but I don't think that we're ever going to get into shoe sales.
We sell a number of products. Shoulder pulley's, pre fab orthotics, Biofreeze (like its going out of style), cold packs, and theraband pre-packaged.
Most of my patient's find these products convenient purchases and don't mind paying a little more than picking up a product at the pharmacy, or internet.
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Re: Reselling - March 27, 2007 3:01:00 AM
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PhysioThis
Posts: 84
Joined: October 23, 2006
From: New York
Status: offline
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VagusX,
Do you make/lose or break even on these sales?
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Ed, PT, MTB-XC
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Re: Reselling - March 27, 2007 1:16:00 PM
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VagusX
Posts: 212
Joined: March 26, 2003
From: Savannah, GA, USA
Status: offline
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We make money on the Biofreeze, orthotics, cold packs, pulleys. With theraband we break even, which is a lot better than being in the hole ~ 1000/yr after giving it away. Some of our therapist don't make some patients pay, and we are constantly breaking bands in the clinic.
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