|
|
Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis During two handed biceps exercises
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis During tw... - March 30, 2005 9:58:00 AM
|
|
|
VagusX
Posts: 216
Joined: March 26, 2003
From: Savannah, GA, USA
Status: offline
|
Hello everybody
To the weight lifters out there. I, as well as my lifting partner have noticed through most of out lifting days that we can go through phases where our medial/anterior forearm can become very aggrevated during preacher or other two handed biceps strengthening activities. I am trying to figure the pain out myself and how to remedy it but I'm get a little stumped. My hypothesis is the Flexor Carpi Ulnaris is weak and during heavy biceps work the muscle becomes overused. I seams to me that whenever a bicep curl occurs the natural motion without weight, the wrist is to ulnarly deviate at the same time. The biceps being a strong supinator, during a heavy lift the natural UD motion of elbow flexion will be antagonized by the Biceps supination (when I think supination I can feel a small amount of radial deviation) and cause overuse of the FCU. Am I completely off? Am I imagining all these motions occuring. I think that i have to pick up my kines book again.
The pain at its worse can be felt during the entirety of a set of preacher curl. The pain is usally amplified right after letting go of the bar (75-80 pounds on my last set.)
I have tried some repositioning of my hands on the barbells and it helps a tad. When the pain gets unbearable I simply stop two handed exercises and stick with dumbells. The pain will then improve over a month or two.
What is this and what does everybody do for it?
Thanks
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - March 30, 2005 4:21:00 PM
|
|
|
srcase
Posts: 551
Joined: November 30, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
I think that the problem is when using a bar, you are essentially decreasing the natural carrying angle of the elbow, and prohibiting the natural elbow abduction that occurs with flexion toward the body. (Start in anatomical position, and curl your arms up and notice how the forearms translate in the transverse plane, not just the saggital). Using the bar seems to also limit the last bit of supination that occurs at the top of the movement, and I would theorize that the forearm pain you feel is from the supinator muscle and/or the pronator quadratus, and possible strain on the medial collaterol ligament. Either way, you are better off using dumbbells for heavy weights, as I imagine you are struggling at the end of the movement due to active insufficiency of the muscles. (You should know better than to execise in pain!) Good question though....I like thinking through these kinds of things.....and I am looking forward to hearing others opinions.
Sarah
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - March 31, 2005 6:28:00 AM
|
|
|
JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
Status: offline
|
I think Sarah's synopsis is good, I would agree that with the barbell or "EZ Curl" bar you are constraining some of the arthrokinematics of the elbow joints.
I doubt it is possible to really localize the problem to the FCU or another specific muscle. It likely has as much to do with the biomechanics as it does a specific muscle overuse thing.
I see this type of thing quite a bit in weightlifters, and once they get off the preacher or barbell curl, they do fine.
There are tons of other ways, as i'm sure you know, to work the same area.
I use that opportunity to bring up the idea and use of chinups for biceps development, as weightlifters typically have some muscle balance issues anyway with stronger anterior muscles than back muscles. Chinups help solve the elbow pain issue and address muscle balance at the same time. Two for one!
Good luck.
Jason.
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - March 31, 2005 12:39:00 PM
|
|
|
VagusX
Posts: 216
Joined: March 26, 2003
From: Savannah, GA, USA
Status: offline
|
Right on Guys
I completly forgot about the carrying angle and how the arm wants to move in the transverse plane as well as the sagittal. The curl bars definelty restrict this motion. I suppose this is the reason for wanting to abduct the elbows when the sets get tough.
I do do chinup Jason. They are the greatest. I just started to do some crazy subscap/biceps chinups. You do a chin up and on the way back down, push your body away from the bar as controlled as possible. It is very challenging. If you want to feel a muscle get sore, try that one.
Thanks for the replys
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - March 31, 2005 6:12:00 PM
|
|
|
PTupdate.com
Posts: 1478
Joined: October 8, 2001
From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Status: offline
|
I do all my curls...supinated, neutral/hammer, and overhand one arm at a time. This allows me to deviate my body and shoulder to permit these accessory motions.
On another note: The brachialis is a very strong elbow flexor, and can really get hammered during pronated curls (which shuts off the biceps). This is a very unnatural position, and I (like many others) have trashed their wrist extensor attachment doing with curl bar. After all, this muscle can curl more weight than the wrist extensors can safely hold in neutral, right?
So, I use a theraband, doubled over and under my foot, with it looped over my dorsal wrist. Now, I can really hammer the brachialis without using my wrist extensors at all, AND keep my foream fully supinated. Use a towel to eliminate the forced removal of all your wrist hair!
Bulk up the brachialis, and it just pushes the biceps out further, putting some good size on the upper arm.
John Duffy, PT OCS
[URL=http://www.PTupdate.com]www.PTupdate.com[/URL]
_____________________________
John M. Duffy, PT
Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist
www.PTupdate.com
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - April 7, 2005 6:01:00 AM
|
|
|
Alex Brenner PT MPT OCS
Posts: 1057
Joined: February 29, 2004
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
|
The same thing happened to me about a year ago when I returned to weight training. I could not figure out what caused it until I modified the way I was using the Lat pull down machine. Whenever I was using heavy weight with the lat machine I notice that I was gripping the bar very tightly. I am pretty sure this is what caused my medial forearm pain. I started using forearm straps for this exercise and the pain went away in about 2 weeks. I have not had medial forearm pain since. I also noticed I could isolate my lats better utilizing the straps.
_____________________________
Alex Brenner, PT, MPT, OCS
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - June 23, 2005 1:02:00 PM
|
|
|
gs_430
Posts: 2
Joined: June 22, 2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
|
Hello,
I just stumbled onto this forum while searching for answers regarding my wrist pain. I am not a doctor or an med student so please take that into consideration if anyone replies. I too, injured my wrist doing preacher curls about 3 months ago. I believe it is my right flexor carpi unlnaris that is no tracking along that bone that protrudes out of my wrist (don't know the exact medical term). Now, anytime I flex my hand/wrist and twist it, you can see the FCU pop over that bone, back and forth when I twist my wrist. The pain becomes unbearable if I do any activities that utilizes my FCU (ie golf). Can anyone tell me what my injury is and if there is a remedy? Also, if this requires surgery? Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - June 23, 2005 1:13:00 PM
|
|
|
coreconcepts
Posts: 68
Joined: April 13, 2005
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline
|
Interesting...
I have suffered from acute bouts of shooting pain in the medial epicondyle area, but it seems that the ez-curl bar actually makes it easier on my elbow. It seems that full supination is what sometimes causes the pain. BTW, I can't do chin-ups in a supinated position as it hurts my shoulders too. Is this medial rotator stiffness?
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - June 23, 2005 4:14:00 PM
|
|
|
srcase
Posts: 551
Joined: November 30, 2004
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
Eugene,
That sounds like a different problem, most likely involving the retinaculum that retains the tendons, or the triangular fibrocartilage complex (which includes a small disc between the ulna and the triquetral bone). You should consult with an orthopedic who specializes in wrist/hand problems.
Core,
See the above posts. Decreasing the natural carrying angle puts strain on the medial elbow. I agree that the EZ bar would probably be less stressful to the joint.
With the chin-ups, I am thinking that supination combined with full elbow extension can put the biceps into active insufficiency.....which may cause anterior shoulder pain over the biceps tendons. I don't see how medial rotator stiffness of the shoulder could be causing it, as you are not really externally rotating that much in a chin-up.
Sarah
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - June 24, 2005 2:23:00 AM
|
|
|
JLS_PT_OCS
Posts: 1684
Joined: January 30, 2005
From: USA
Status: offline
|
Eugene-
Consultation with a Physical Therapist or an Orthopedic surgeon is recommended.
You can use the "Find a PT" database to find a PT in your local area by going to [URL=http://www.apta.org]www.apta.org[/URL]
Good luck.
Core-
I agree with Sarah about your shoulders, but we'd really have to watch your chinup and examine your shoulders to be sure. Perhaps you know a good Canuck physio you could ask?
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Possible Flexor Carpi Ulnaris Pain/Tendonitis Durin... - July 7, 2005 8:58:00 AM
|
|
|
gs_430
Posts: 2
Joined: June 22, 2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline
|
Thanks Sarah and Jason. I will look into your recommendations.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
0.094
|
Printable Version
