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PT Month is coming
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PT Month is coming - September 21, 2000 10:06:00 AM
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scriss
Posts: 40
Joined: April 14, 1999
From: Columbus, IN USA
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To Everyone: PT month is almost upon us and our company (like many across the nation) is getting ideas and plans for activites, articles, etc. to increase public awareness about physical therapy. I was wondering if anyone has any good resources for public service/education articles for newspaper publication about different issues (back protection while raking leaves for example).
I have been searching different areas and in all honesty have not had much luck. Can anyone help me with this and any other great ideas?? Much appreciated! Thank you in advance!
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Re: PT Month is coming - September 21, 2000 11:28:00 AM
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Dana D
Posts: 142
Joined: September 18, 1999
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I remember reading last september or so in the Advance magazine about back pack safety. It gave an interesting article on back pack safety tips for children... how heavy it should be, the size of the bag, how to lift it, how to wear it, etc. It was interesting... now I see a lot of kids pulling their packs on wheels..which gives there backs a rest! I typed in back pack safety on dogpile search engine and came up with a lot of info..there is an organization called back pack safety america.....problem is i don't know/remember how to hyperlink it to this post.
Just an idea! [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG]
[This message has been edited by Dana D (edited September 21, 2000).]
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Re: PT Month is coming - September 22, 2000 5:16:00 AM
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scriss
Posts: 40
Joined: April 14, 1999
From: Columbus, IN USA
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Dana - Thanks for the info I will check that out!!
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 1, 2000 6:50:00 PM
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mcap
Posts: 652
Joined: February 8, 2000
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Dr. Mr. Cat:
Are you the infamous metapod!!!!??????
I agree with you about your back safety comments. We are basically telling the world how they should lift something. But the truth is that we don't know!!!!
Furthermore, at a recent ergonomics course (with some of the most respected researchers in the field), the consensus was that NO lifting training program has EVER made a difference for preventing low back pain!!!!
As for Back Pack safety, I honestly haven't looked into this one. But I would imagine that there is very little science behind anything we could tell people aside from "keep it light."
In this time of heightened ergonmic awareness, we must remember that kids are kids and when they aren't carrying heavy back packs, they are rolling around on the ground and beating each other up.
mcap
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 8:09:00 AM
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metapod
Posts: 11
Joined: July 8, 2000
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I'm afraid there are too many quatitatively focused folks who work in physical therapy and this leads to blinding of natural conscience and of manual understanding of how soft tissues work and heal. That is the point I was tying to get across even though it is off topic ehre. No amount of measurment by instruments can replace how the human being as a whole experiences a patient and also synthezises the entirety of the subject.
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 8:21:00 AM
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metapod
Posts: 11
Joined: July 8, 2000
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Perhaps if "Brendan" had an inkling of the holistic methods he purports to know about he would not sound as such an rank amatuer. I am not an aquarian although I hold some expectation that we can influnce our future. Everyone needs to know that he has no understanding of Wiccan mythology or of its methods and need not criticise so harshly. Should I begin with belitling your stupid office decor?
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 8:39:00 AM
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Dana D
Posts: 142
Joined: September 18, 1999
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For one bobcat... my response was in relevance to a brief newspaper article... not a live stunt show...
Yes, your ideas are shocking/interesting/attention grabbers...
I merely stated an idea for a newspaper... one that is fitting for this time of year, back to school...
And although it is boring to some extent and you state that it is common sense "keep it light".....have you stepped foot in a school lately? and seen little 10 year olds with backpacks double the size of their bodies? The idea was about writing a brief article... to raise awareness to the public about the safety of children's backs...not to perform another nauseating ergonomic's inservice on back safety/lift at the knees not at the waste... that topic is beaten to death
I could of honestly done without the attacking comments..
[This message has been edited by Dana D (edited October 03, 2000).]
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 11:05:00 AM
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mcap
Posts: 652
Joined: February 8, 2000
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Dana:
I agree with you that the packs probably are heavier. I hear about this all of the time.
Here are two questions I was considering. Is there any research that actually says this is a problem?
If it is...what could we do about it? And is there any research on back pack design. I don't think so but I will check the ye old ergonomic abstracts.
Take care,
Marc
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 1:16:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
Posts: 500
Joined: October 8, 1999
From: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
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Easy Folks, Metapod is entitled to her opinion, but I'll be ****ed if I could understand why in the world she'd ever choose to hold such a clinically and politically dangerous approach to therapy so dear. I'm not attacking, so please don't take it as such, but I just don't get it. I've re-written this e-mail several times, and it still comes across hostile in text. It's not intended to be, but I sit here in sheer incredulity and have a viceral need to understand your comments.
I'm shocked that you have the perspective that you do. You have an earned PhD, yet you've previously stated that, "There is no means for science to measure this type of interaction which has physical as well as psychoemotional and sometimes spiritual influence," but your forget that science is not neurophysiology alone. Besides, most PhD programs teach that if it ain't measurable, it ain't science. Are you suggesting that physical therapy should become more of an art form than a science? Have you been somehow immune or shielded from demands for outcomes research that our profession currently faces? Outcomes that will shape the autonomy . . . the very existence of the profession in the near future? Please tell me you're joking, and that you're not "passing on" this philosophy to unsuspecting students. Bobcat proclaims that you're a skilled researcher, and from a guy that gives few compliments, I belive it. That makes your testimony even more difficult to listen to. I just don't get it.
As you're well aware, we have a means for testing the validity of our claims in the real world. It's called the scientific method. It involves testing and re-testing hypotheses, not guilting emerging evidence-based clinicians into questioning the "price they should put" on unproven techniques. No one is asking the camp of SCS to prove their neurology. They can't, it's flawed . . . period end of story. They shouldn't cling to a clearly flawed theory, nor charge others in an effort to perpetuate the error. I have to demand that they AT THE VERY LEAST prove their effects with more than testimonials and case studies though. I'm tired of this, "I’m too busy healing the masses" crap. I've heard it for years, and you, a PhD, should know better than to suggest that they should do otherwise. Social science research examining outcomes and pain reduction is STILL valid research. The SCS camp remains chillingly quiet.
Didn't ya'll learn that just because some change is subjective doesn't mean that it can't be measured? Sure, perhaps not on a neurophysiological level, but how about on a clinical outcome/social science level? Specifically, why not examine things like sickness impact before and after Rx using the Rolland Morris or SF-36 (esp since we know per Worrel that once you drop the RM score under 18, that the risk of back surgery decreases dramatically - that would be clinically significant, objective, and evidence-based). What about comparing efficiency to achieving matched goals across groups receiving either SCS or a more traditional type of therapy . . . can't one of the ICC's (interclass corrolation coeficient) be used for calculation of this? How about an A-B-A-B study using two different techniques.
How much is an unproven technique worth you ask? About as much as a sugar pill, facilitated communication. Difference is, MD's don't CHARGE for sugar pills, and the parents sent to JAIL on the basis of the sexual assault charges of their "facilitated" children have been set free . . . but not before the lifetime of damage was done. I'm not arguing that there is not an effect with SCS, just that the effect doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the theories of Jones or Weezelfish. Also, we should measure the effect before we charge patients for it. To do otherwise is unethical and unprofessional don't you think?
I’m proud to see that the increasingly evidence-based forum at RehabEdge has challenged your comments. That paradigm shift slowly occurring within the profession, NOT sham treatments, is what our profession "cannot put a price on.”
I find it quite telling that you're responded to this and other threads, but to my questions, you remain silent and unable to defend your claims.
I ask you, I ask the RehabEdge community . . . Why is this? Is this because my last posting was so offensive and inappropriate, and therefore, in your mind no response is necessary . . . or is it that the truth hurts? (e.g. that your apparent metaphysical approach to the practice of physical therapy is potentially, unethical, indefensible and damaging to the profession?)
I'll quote (as directly as I can remember) a comment made by Jules Rothstien to John Barns:
"I believe in metaphysics John, I just don't bill for it." I'd take that a step further. Until we're sure how some of these metaphysical techniques work, until we have some social science research on how they affect outcomes, and until we abandon techniques based on faulty theory (e.g. SCS and Strain-Counterstrain) we have NO business bringing the technique into the clinic . . . unless as part of a clincal trial CLEARLY DEFINED to the patient as an UNPROVEN EXPERIMENTAL TECHNIQUE.
Of course, some patients may choose to pay out of pocket for such quackery, but I'd reject that approach too (unless of course the non-scientific nature of the technique was FULLY disclosed, which never happens).
I wonder how many patients would elect SCS or CSR if their therapist told them quite honestly. "The validity of the technique has not been established through research. The very neurophysiologic theories that most of my colleagues will tell you the patient has to how this stuff works is CLEARLY wrong. Nevertheless, I think it works and I've seen results with many of my patients . . . that will be $90 per session 2 times a week for 4 weeks please."
It's WHOLLY INAPPROPRIATE to bill for this crap (to insurance OR to the patient willing to pay out of pocket) without fully disclosing the facts. It rapes the patient, a vulnerable person in pain, of making an informed, autonomous decision because you've biased the patient by filtering them the facts as you see fit.
Not to fully disclose the lack of evidence for a technique ROBBS the patient of autonomy. Not respecting autonomy is a very clear case of ethical violation.
Respectfully,
Andrew M. Ball, MS, MBA, PT
I eagerly await your response, but won't hold my breath.
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 5:19:00 PM
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metapod
Posts: 11
Joined: July 8, 2000
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To describe it...it is like early 80s style Spencer Gifts Lava Lamp Revival... a tasteful poster of Claudia Schifer in a wet swimsuit behind one of the doors...one must restrct a shade to see it...quite a flip and hair raising experience when coming upon it the first time. Halfeaten granola bars in the drawers...glow in the dark stars scotch taped to countertops, some UV light posters with fuzzy spots, and the motorized fibre optics displays, - a coup de gras of stylistic impression.
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 3, 2000 5:19:00 PM
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metapod
Posts: 11
Joined: July 8, 2000
Status: offline
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To describe it...it is like early 80s style Spencer Gifts Lava Lamp Revival... a tasteful poster of Claudia Schifer in a wet swimsuit behind one of the doors...one must restrct a shade to see it...quite a flip and hair raising experience when coming upon it the first time. Halfeaten granola bars in the drawers...glow in the dark stars scotch taped to countertops, some UV light posters with fuzzy spots, and the motorized fibre optics displays, - a coup de gras of stylistic impression.
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 4, 2000 5:31:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT
Posts: 500
Joined: October 8, 1999
From: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Status: offline
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Metapod,
I see you've yet again ignored my request for intelligent intellectual discussion on the subject of alternative medicine and faith healing.
There are topics ranging from neurophysiology to biomedical ethics that could be woven into the discussion for the benefit or RehabEdge members, yet you contine to remain silent . . . unless of course you're attacking Bobcat.
Bobcat has asked some very appropriate questions that we'd all like to hear the answer to. They remain unanswered. It helps no one but your own ego to respond to requests for evidence for your practice with emotional appeals, diversions to the office decor of a co-worker, or other personal attacks that have nothing at all to do with the point at hand . . .
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY EXPECT ANYONE TO FOLLOW A TREATMENT APPROACH FOR WHICH THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC OR BASIS?
There is NO NEUROPHYSIOLOG BASIS for SCS, there is NO GAMMA MOTOR NEURON BIAS in humans. Why then use it? Why then charge for it? There is NEURPHYSIOLOG BASIS for CST, but if two testers can't agree on amplitude and frequency of pulse . . . and this is the VERY INFORMATION the guides treatment . . . then how can ANYONE back the validity of the treatment?
I recently worked with an OT who stated that she used CST on a child and it helped to reduce her tone and clam her down. I probed further into what she felt upon evaluation . . . What cranial bones moved excessively? Which were jammed? What was the amplitude of movement like? Was it symmetrical? This quack couldn't answer ONE QUESTION, and proceded to lecutre me about CST . . . using the "I know what I feel" framework. What a load of bull . . . the truth is that this kid is a fussy baby. She doesn't like ANYONE upon first meeting. Infant Massage had identical effects for calming an "tone reduction" . . . hell, just holding her for a few minutes did the same thing.
Touch is very important to the human condition, and that's where it ends. Why do PT's like yourself have such a need to take it any further than that? There is NOTHING special (or even valid) about SCS or CST beyond the healing power of human contact.
Respectfully,
Andrew M. Ball, MS, MBA, PT
P.S. Bobcat, I see what you mean. I'd lock myself up in an office filled with garlic, silver bullets, holy water, and crosses too.
[This message has been edited by Andrew M. Ball, MS, PT (edited October 04, 2000).]
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 4, 2000 11:14:00 AM
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Dana D
Posts: 142
Joined: September 18, 1999
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that would be interesting........
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Re: PT Month is coming - October 12, 2000 1:44:00 PM
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scriss
Posts: 40
Joined: April 14, 1999
From: Columbus, IN USA
Status: offline
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Well, this has become a very interesting read for someone who just asked a simple question. As much as I like the discussion....
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