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Just another "brand" of shyster's?
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Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 23, 2008 10:10:53 PM
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proud
Posts: 941
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Is that what "PT" is becoming along with the local masseur, chiro, doctor of natural medicine etc?....
With looney toons like this guy out there:
http://www.theprrt.com/etc/video/index.php?file=powerpoint-demo-1
We should all be worried.
It baffles the mind that with available evidence( both past and most notably current), we can have PT's get roped into the likes of MFR, PRRT, CST, skin stretching etc...
Unfortunately I think we do have our fair share of PT's who had enough "book smarts" to get into the PT programs but are otherwise intellectually challenged. Some are just plain naive. Others are in fact just snake oil salesmen( eh um..see above)...
Our professional regulation should be much much better. It is really shameful that a prestigious university degree is being reduced to much lower levels by this type of stuff. Perhaps we have ourselves to blame?
Where oh where are the professional regulators?
< Message edited by proud -- February 23, 2008 10:23:56 PM >
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 23, 2008 11:02:47 PM
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signature16
Posts: 6
Joined: February 20, 2008
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There is definitely some backing to this. I wouldn't call it voodo just because you don't understand how it works. Its explained better on this youtube video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tk-4SSzGhBc
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 23, 2008 11:30:24 PM
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proud
Posts: 941
Joined: March 22, 2006
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Well Signature,
1. That video did nothing to clarify. It certainly demonstrated some pretty classic scam artist features: He uses antamical references( confusng and wowing the lay PT), utilzes the hawthorne effect with his 'patients', and speaks to his 'students' in guruesque fashion.
2. Besides seeing through all the anatomical, central pathway mumbo jumbo, the video performances are enough for me to understand the nature of this sales act....
If you are a graduate of an accredited PT university program, it should be enough for you as well....
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 23, 2008 11:48:44 PM
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signature16
Posts: 6
Joined: February 20, 2008
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debatably...
the treatment is supposed to hold and improve the outcome of other traditional therapies. I can't comment on that personally though as I haven't used the technique on patients. depending on how much negative feedback comes through.... i might post my success or failures.
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 23, 2008 11:57:53 PM
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signature16
Posts: 6
Joined: February 20, 2008
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Am I seriously the only one who finds this technique interesting?
That news segment couldn't have been too bad for Turning Point Physical Therapy. Patients love this kind of stuff... am I wrong?
< Message edited by signature16 -- February 24, 2008 12:02:31 AM >
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 12:07:48 AM
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Dr.Wagner
Posts: 1242
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From: Indianapolis
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As a DO, I can tell you...for years, we DO's had the market cornered on being less then EBM practioners. Anything that is remotely hokey has its roots in either Osteopathic or Chiropractic.
I say that with a huge grin on my face. I love my brother DO's, but we all know it.
_____________________________
Dr. Wagner DO
Moderator of Medical Complexity Forum
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 1:13:30 AM
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jesspt
Posts: 85
Joined: April 3, 2007
From: Illinois
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quote:
There is definitely some backing to this
And what backing would that be?
quote:
the treatment is supposed to hold and improve the outcome of other traditional therapies. I can't comment on that personally though as I haven't used the technique on patients
I guess the key word there is "supposed". If it had gone through any type of scientific research, there would be no "supposed" about it. But, instead, we're left to accept the snake oil salemsman's opinion and anectdotal evidence as the gospel.
This type of situation is about the worst type of thing that can hapen to PT. It gets press because it's novel and well marketed, not because it is grounded in sound theory or.....wait for it....has any evidence that it improves patients' outcomes.
What are the credentials/initials for shyster?
_____________________________
Jess Brown, PT
Board Certified in Orthopaedic Physical Therapy
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 1:34:05 AM
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jlharris
Posts: 476
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From: Nebraska
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My favorite is he starts talking about "costochondral restrictions" on the right during his "exam" before palpating the right. It's like the guy that figured out the pattern on Press Your Luck and was celebrating immediately after pressing the button. He knew the answer before hand just like John Iams seems to know what he is going to "find" before he even looks.
It's an act, a show, and he does it well. But that is still all it is.
_____________________________
Jason L. Harris, PT, DPT
My PT Blog
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 3:32:01 AM
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Kaden
Posts: 329
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Wow,
Do we not have any kind of regulatory board that can stop these guys from practicing under the physical therapy umbrella. If they wan't to do it and folks want to pay for it then fine, just don't drag the profressional perception of other PT's while you do it.
It looks like a voodo form of contract relax therapy. They may actually get some short term results just like you can see when doing CR therapy on hamstrings to get dramatic range increase only to have the range reduce back to initial range within seconds.
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 8:30:45 AM
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proud
Posts: 941
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Or at the very least increase the entrance standards for being admitted into a PT program.
High marks should be only considered slightly. There is a seperation between "book smarts" and basic intelligence in my opinion.
If we have graduating PT's this easily convinced by this (which is a really bad snake oil road show performance), then we have some real stupid PT's out there( my apologies for the term stupid). But it really does apply.
< Message edited by proud -- February 24, 2008 8:35:30 AM >
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 12:58:56 PM
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kamryn
Posts: 27
Joined: February 23, 2008
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See below regarding CA’s recent efforts for direct access being squashed – some “nice” comments from the California Medical Association and the California Orthopaedic Association as well – bottom line: we have a long way to go to gain credibility (those who think otherwise are kidding themsleves) and treatments like primal reflex therapy, MFR, etc only hurt our credibility.
AB 1444 Hearing Cancelled
The California Physical therapy Association (CPTA) Government Affairs Committee received news late last week that if we moved ahead with our bill in committee on Tuesday, we would most likely be defeated and that would end our efforts for this year. CPTA has spent too much time and energy to go down in defeat at this time. We have chosen to pull the bill at this time with the intention of introducing a new bill and continuing to at least try and work with the CMA and COA and the Business & Professions Committee. It is our estimation that the new bill would be heard in March or April. Thanks to those of you that have made a significant commitment of your time, energy and money to our efforts. You have the thanks of every member of our profession and those of our patients who so strongly support the goal of unrestricted access to physical therapy services. We will need you to continue to participate in the process. Please continue to schedule visits with your legislators in the Assembly to educate them about physical therapy and consumer direct access, collect patient surveys and assist your patients in writing their own letters requesting full direct access. We will also get back to you quickly with an update going forward.
“Availing these patients of what may appear to be a more convenient
access to physical therapy, could in fact add to the gravity of their
health problems and result in treatable conditions going undetected
for a long time. This…would undoubtedly lead to even worse
problems.”—April 17, 2007 letter from nine physicians and
doctors of osteopathy from Arrowhead Orthopaedics.
“As we debate healthcare this legislative session, we must stress
the importance of not sacrificing patient safety and quality for
convenience…we urge you to vote NO on AB 1444.”—April 23,
2007 letter from Jodi Hicks, California Medical Association.
“If the physical therapist is held to the same standard of care as the
physician and surgeon, the physical therapist will be the target of
malpractice litigation, since PT’s (sic) lack of the full breadth of
training of a physician will inevitably lead to missed diagnoses. If the
physical therapist is not held to the same standard as the physician
and surgeon, who will inform the patient that he/she is receiving
substandard diagnosis and treatment?”—December 21, 2007
letter from the California Orthopaedic Association.
“Their (CPTA) claim that underserved patients have a long wait
time to see a primary physician is not correct.”—December
20, 2007 letter from Clarence Shields, Jr., M.D., Kerlan-Job
Orthopaedic Clinic, Los Angeles.
“It is not infrequent that patients are treated by health care
professionals other than physicians without a correct diagnosis, and
this will tend to make their condition worsen.”—December 18,
2007 letter from Paul Woody, M.D., Torrey Pines Orthopaedic
Medical Group, San Diego.
“Without proper training, which physical therapists seriously lack at
this time, costly over diagnosis, under treatment WILL be common.
This is not a maybe either…It took 9 years to go through medical
school and residency. Do you really think that training in half that time is enough to let loose on the innocent public?”—Undated letter
from Charles Alexander, M.D., Pico Rivera.
“We do not believe that California should be setting up a secondtiered,
lower standard of care for any group.”—Undated letter
from Robert Aptekar, M.D., Los Gatos.
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 1:38:36 PM
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T_Thom
Posts: 63
Joined: December 25, 2007
Status: offline
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Speaking of shysters--
Sorry for the tangent, but I found it interesting & not surprising that doing a quick background search of the surgeons who made statements against CPTA have in-house physical therapy (likely referral for profit, wouldn't you guess?!)
“Without proper training, which physical therapists seriously lack at
this time, costly over diagnosis, under treatment WILL be common.
This is not a maybe either…It took 9 years to go through medical
school and residency. Do you really think that training in half that time is enough to let loose on the innocent public?”—Undated letter
from Charles Alexander, M.D., Pico Rivera.
http://orthodoc.aaos.org/CharlesHAlexanderMD/
http://orthodoc.aaos.org/aomc/
“We do not believe that California should be setting up a secondtiered,
lower standard of care for any group.”—Undated letter
from Robert Aptekar, M.D., Los Gatos.
http://orthodoc.aaos.org/aomc/
“Availing these patients of what may appear to be a more convenient
access to physical therapy, could in fact add to the gravity of their
health problems and result in treatable conditions going undetected
for a long time. This…would undoubtedly lead to even worse
problems.”—April 17, 2007 letter from nine physicians and
doctors of osteopathy from Arrowhead Orthopaedics.
http://www.arrowheadortho.com/therapists.htm
“As we debate healthcare this legislative session, we must stress
the importance of not sacrificing patient safety and quality for
convenience…we urge you to vote NO on AB 1444.”—April 23,
2007 letter from Jodi Hicks, California Medical Association.
Jodi Hicks: lobbyist for the California Medical Association
I really hope the background of these individuals is examined to reveal who may have conflicting interests!
Here are the hearing notes
< Message edited by T_Thom -- February 25, 2008 11:29:20 AM >
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 24, 2008 3:14:42 PM
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proud
Posts: 941
Joined: March 22, 2006
Status: offline
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Turf wars. It is pretty clear that when properly done( unlike our hair pulling shyster), PT in direct access settings is low risk( Moore etal). It also improves outcomes.
And besides, shall we all have a test on NMSK knowlege?
[url]http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1177956[/url]
I am not worried.
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RE: Just another "brand" of shyster's? - February 27, 2008 12:20:53 AM
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blast7
Posts: 114
Joined: July 28, 2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: signature16
Am I seriously the only one who finds this technique interesting?
That news segment couldn't have been too bad for Turning Point Physical Therapy. Patients love this kind of stuff... am I wrong?
Your only posts on this forum so far relate to this new therapy so your input does lack some credibility.
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