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If you want to be disgusted by other professionals practicing "PT" read this.
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If you want to be disgusted by other professionals prac... - September 25, 2003 10:15:00 AM
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spfister
Posts: 23
Joined: September 7, 2003
Status: offline
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Take a look at this link.http://www.empiremedicaltraining.com/therapy.htm I bet none of the PTs here have ever thought of their services as "passive revenue" before. I particularly like that they teach all modalities (all they probably do) in 1 hour. Wonder what their treatment algorithms look like!
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 10:49:00 AM
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Scanner
Posts: 71
Joined: March 17, 2003
Status: offline
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Get ready guys - the boogeyman/insurance company is coming for you next. I agree with the prediction (not made by me) that PT will be the next target of managed care - multiple modalities, hours of "supervised exercises" will start to be questioned and cut.
And the APTA will be unable to do anything about it.
Take it from us - the boogeyman got us last decade.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 11:13:00 AM
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hgross
Posts: 16
Joined: June 23, 2003
From: Aurora, MN USA
Status: offline
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Well, I for one DO NOT do multiple modalities and repetitive exercises when I treat patients. I actually do very few modalities, but this website was quite an eye-opener. I am forwarding it to MN APTA.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 11:55:00 AM
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spfister
Posts: 23
Joined: September 7, 2003
Status: offline
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Scanner,
I am confused by your quote. Did you go to the link? This is not PTs, this is primary care physicians looking to increase revenue by providing "PT"! Let's not confuse the two. What needs to be looked at by the "boogeyman" is the practice of allowing others than licensed PTs to bill for PT. Relooking at Physician ownership would be good as well.
Steve
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 12:02:00 PM
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hgross
Posts: 16
Joined: June 23, 2003
From: Aurora, MN USA
Status: offline
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Agree, I'd like to know who that sell-out PT is who is training the physicians. This is NOT in the best interest of patient care.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 12:18:00 PM
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Scanner
Posts: 71
Joined: March 17, 2003
Status: offline
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[QUOTE]I am confused by your quote. Did you go to the link? This is not PTs, this is primary care physicians looking to increase revenue by providing "PT"! Let's not confuse the two. [/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter. For instance, in the SPD (Summary Plan Documents), the governing plan documents of employer sponsored plans, what is usually limited is "spinal manipulation", not chiropractic care. Now they know that DC's are performing 92% of SMT in the US but in a lot of states they can only limit procedures, not providers.
This is a loophole to control chiropractic.
What will happen with PT will be a similiar limitation. 12 PT visits/year in an outpatient facility or something thereof. Doesn't matter if the crook is an MD or a PT or a DC for that matter. PT will limited and targeted for reduction.
[QUOTE]What needs to be looked at by the "boogeyman" is the practice of allowing others than licensed PTs to bill for PT. Relooking at Physician ownership would be good as well.
Steve [/QUOTE]
You know, come to think of it, in the SPD's, I have seen plan administrators write in "Physical Therapy: as performed by a physical therapist." thereby limiting PT to PT's excluding DC's and MD's.
That may be an approach to take for your profession.
Still, they'll just look at "physical medicine" as a whole and target it for reduction.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 12:51:00 PM
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katiegbpt
Posts: 3
Joined: July 20, 2003
From: San Pedro, CA, USA
Status: offline
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I am shocked by this! I sent it to the APTA.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by spfister:
Take a look at this link.http://www.empiremedicaltraining.com/therapy.htm I bet none of the PTs here have ever thought of their services as "passive revenue" before. I particularly like that they teach all modalities (all they probably do) in 1 hour. Wonder what their treatment algorithms look like![/QUOTE]
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 1:11:00 PM
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nrl
Posts: 121
Joined: May 23, 2002
From: israel
Status: offline
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All health systems and health laws and regulations around the world have their problems. But, I must say, from reading the posts on this forum, the one in the U.S. seems quite weird. With all the regulation and laws, it looks like a chaotic grab what you can system..
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 1:34:00 PM
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Dr.Wagner
Posts: 1242
Joined: January 24, 2003
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline
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They should be advertising "Physical Modalities" rather than PT...even as a PT and now a doctor, I don't plan on charging for PT (ethically wrong, self referral). Though I see nothing wrong with modalities and HEP's, Physical Therapy should be provided by a professional therapist.
But let me tell you boys and girls, there are a LOT of AT-C's that do this everyday...and they do it well. As a team doctor, the AT-C's I see are absolutely fabulous.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 3:16:00 PM
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DocZon
Posts: 70
Joined: April 19, 2003
From: Winchester, MA
Status: offline
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Yes, that stinks!
Why wouldn't a medical physician just hire a PT to work in their office, pay them a competitive salary and keep the rest? At least there is some benefit for the patient and you are not having untrained personel perform the procedures. Is passive therapy even justifiable these days?
There is an orthopedist in the surrounding area where I work who has his staff perform modalities on his patients, most of which are MVA's. No active treatment, just meds and modalities. I did a records review on one of his patients who had apparantly injured his SI joint in a car accident. The orthopedist performed GAIT evaluation and GAIT traing 56 times over a 5 month period. Each visit was $395.00 and it was paid in full.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 3:21:00 PM
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DocZon
Posts: 70
Joined: April 19, 2003
From: Winchester, MA
Status: offline
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Forgot one more piece of this story. the patient said that the gait training and evaluation would consist of showing up to the doc's office and walking down the hall. He was only in an exam room on one occasion. He said each visit lasted about 1 minute at most. That's quicker than some of us chiropractors.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 25, 2003 6:55:00 PM
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Diane
Posts: 1506
Joined: March 9, 2001
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Status: online
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Holy doodle: $395 per minute? That's spectacular insuro-therapy...bet he had his golf clubs paid off in a hurry.
Diane
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 26, 2003 5:07:00 AM
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Shill
Posts: 1090
Joined: February 13, 2003
From: Madison WI USA
Status: offline
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Scanner,
Managed Care is not a prediction, it is a reality. It already exists in Wisconsin, and incidently, multiple modalities repeated over and over, along with unsupervised, unskilled exercise training SHOULD be scrutinized.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 26, 2003 6:24:00 AM
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Scanner
Posts: 71
Joined: March 17, 2003
Status: offline
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Shill,
I agree that PT has been scrutinized (like all other health care) but IMO, not to the same degree that chiropractic has.
It is my prediction that your day is coming.
Just a hunch. Nothing to back me up.
Pharmaceuticals are next on the chopping block too as their consumption is increasing at a staggering rate.
Maybe they'll question "maintenance drugs" like Celebrex they way they question "maintenance chiropractic care."
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 26, 2003 10:12:00 AM
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marptatc
Posts: 47
Joined: March 24, 2002
From: NC
Status: offline
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After contacting the company, Empire Training, they couldn't provide the names of the PT's that provide the physicians with the training as "they use many different ones". If anyone knows the names of the "sell out" PT's, it would be good to open discussion with them about this program.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 27, 2003 1:32:00 PM
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mactherapist
Posts: 4
Joined: September 26, 2003
From: Texas
Status: offline
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I believe that under the Stark 2 law physicians can now have PT in their clinics as long as it is done by a licensed PT under a direct supervision by a physician.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 27, 2003 1:32:00 PM
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mactherapist
Posts: 4
Joined: September 26, 2003
From: Texas
Status: offline
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I believe that under the Stark 2 law physicians can now have PT in their clinics as long as it is done by a licensed PT under a direct supervision by a physician.
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 27, 2003 5:00:00 PM
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PTstud
Posts: 86
Joined: March 8, 2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
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Mactherapist, why would the PT need to be under "direct supervision" of the physician?
Doc Wagner, why must you feel like you have to remind all of us that you're a doctor everytime you post?
M
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 27, 2003 8:39:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
Status: offline
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Dr. Wagner,
I appreciate your prescence on this board. Your unique position as a former PT and now physician create an opportunity for us to view the opinions of those we work with daily, yet seldom get the opportunity for true professional assessment through interdisciplinary discussion. You are often the devils advocate, and I realize the purpose of this is to foster self and professional evaluation by those dedicated enough to the practice of physical therapy to be here.
Keep your posts coming. Keep it critical. Only this way do we learn.
Coloradojulie
(Just watched Jerry Maguire, and may still have some post-chick-flick sentimentality [IMG]http://www.rehabedge.com/forums/smile.gif[/IMG])
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Re: If you want to be disgusted by other professionals ... - September 28, 2003 4:23:00 AM
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Dr.Wagner
Posts: 1242
Joined: January 24, 2003
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline
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PTStud, why must you remind people that you consider yourself "studly"?
I simply state it for the benefit of others reading the board for the first time, and to identify myself as a Medical Doctor not PhD. Mellow out chief.
Thanks coloradojulie
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