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Gary Gray Videos
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Gary Gray Videos - March 8, 2006 7:50:00 AM
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marptatc
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Looking for any info/thoughts on any of Gary Grays videos. Just have seen one specifically addressing the knee and from what I see, seems like other videos covering the LE would replicate what he shows and speaks about in the video I saw. since he connects the foot/ankle, hip and knee with much of the assessment and exercises, has anyone seen his videos and what impression do they have? Also, any insight on his shoulder videos would be great. thanks
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 8, 2006 8:41:00 AM
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JSPT
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Unless you want a review of the function of various body areas, don't bother. Gary basically identifies problems and then treats them, skipping the explanation of his methods and choice of treatment.
It seems to me that he has created a treatment system which relies on jargon that he makes up and a machine that most clinics don't have (TruStretch). Nearly all of the treatments he demonstrates are done in the TruStretch apparatus, which is useless if your clinic doesn't have one.
Overall, I found the series mostly uninformative due to the lack of explanation for his treatment methods.
But hey, some clinicians at my clinic loved the video series.
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JS
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 8, 2006 10:34:00 AM
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JLS_PT_OCS
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He certainly has a great reputation.
He has been called The Father of Functional Training. While I'm not sure that's true, I did find an old copy of the 3D dumbbell matrix in the clinic, took it home and watched it.
It was terrible.
There were a lot of multidirectional lunges with dumbbells where the primary motion comes from flexion and rotation of the lumbar spine(!!) rather than good motion at hips and knees. I have since dubbed the videos "The 3D HNP Matrix".
J
_____________________________
Jason Silvernail DPT, OCS, CSCS
"It isn't what you're able to do that requires your courage but rather what you have come to understand and are willing to express." - Barrett Dorko,PT
**I no longer post on RehabEdge**
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 8, 2006 11:18:00 AM
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truthseeker
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He is a philosopher and a freakishly engaging speaker. I have been to 7 of his courses and the videos are a poor substitute. However, they do serve as a refresher for those who have been. I disagree with JS and Jason S in the sense that first, JS GG does explain in deep detail, why he implements the treatments the way he does.Further, the Trustretch, I agree is a whole bunch of money and not affordable for someone to have in their homes. But, the concepts of the Trustretch i.e. triplanar stretches, incorporating pronation and supination etc . . . is something you can implement with excellent success in your clinic. Your VHI box of canned exercises and stretches are not the answer.
And Jason, HNP matrix? the spine is supposed to move some, not much, but some. If the person in the video was flexing too much, they were not doing it properly or had tight hams, butt or something.
I use the GG philosophy when treating nearly all of my LE and even UE patients. I have not yet bought into the spine applications but he first and formost is a pioneer in the treatment in extremities.
Go to a course, you will learn a lot and enjoy it. Don't expect a cookbood though. He teaches a new paradigm of thinking about kinesiology and anatomy.
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 9, 2006 3:14:00 AM
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marptatc
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thanks for your thoughts
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 9, 2006 3:30:00 AM
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USAPT
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Tom,
I use his 3-D dumbbell matrix techniques as well with my younger pts and they love it. I'm also looking forward in attending a course of his in Sept. I want to experience the movements first hand and listen to his explanations. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Jason, PT
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 10, 2006 2:16:00 AM
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truthseeker
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Just so you know what to expect when/if you go . . . many of the things that we all learned in PT school will be challenged by simple logic. You may find yourself frustrated and feeling naked when some of the fallacies of what we were taught are analyzed, perhaps in ways that you haven't before. The stuff works and is logical, and is evidence based in its fundamentals.
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 10, 2006 7:42:00 AM
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USAPT
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Thanks for the heads-up Tom. I don't use or personally believe some of the things I was taught in school anyway so that isn't going to bother me.
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Jason, PT
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 12, 2006 2:57:00 PM
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VagusX
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As a student I used to watch one of his videos following lunch for an entire week. I think the only thing that kept me awake was his rampant use of the word "perverted."
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 13, 2006 1:44:00 AM
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SJBird55
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Gary Gray is a very dynamic speaker... he does get participants involved... he is very energetic. He captivates you.
But.... he doesn't present anything we don't already know. I didn't find a single thing challenging. I got so caught up with his presentation and thinking the stuff he was discussing was new... it wasn't. When I walked out and started driving home, I got more and more irritated and actually upset at him. He packages and presents the information as if it IS new... he's just regifting. We already know all of it. He just uses different terms and tries to twist things so they appear new - his semantics are the only original thing. Like an illusion... but once you put some thought into it, he's not teaching anything revolutionary or new. I wouldn't spend any further time at any of his courses. The second day of the sports med conference I was at, I specifically looked for him to tell him what I thought - he wasn't there that day...
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 13, 2006 3:38:00 PM
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srcase
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Gary admits he doesn't present anything new. He does not claim to. I went to his Chain Reaction Seminar and have watched most of the video digest series. It's nice if you want a review of biomechanics and to maybe pick up an exercise idea here or there that you haven't thought of or seen in that particular light, but SJ's right. If you know your biomechanics, it's all stuff you can figure out on your own. Plus, he talks way too much in my opinion. He could say the same point in about 1/3 of the words and be much more cogent.
I think his made-up terms are hilarious though. I make up words all the time. Plus, in person, he is very charismatic and a great guy all around. He really does care about people and helping them. And he's very huggable! I think it's good that he has Dave Tiberio around to be the brain of the operation.
Sarah
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 13, 2006 3:41:00 PM
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truthseeker
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That's the point SJ, he doesn't even claim to be presenting new material. He just asks us to reconsider what we have learned and think about it more. Why do we use isokinetic testing? Why do people do open chain short arc quads? Why do we teach isolation when very little of life requires it? Why do people treating the shoulder ignore the impact of the LE when doing so?
Master clinicians may know that stuff intuitively but the way Gary presents the stuff, it makes more sense than what we were taught in school. It is a revolutionary presentation in my opinion. Not revolutionary knowledge, just a different way of thinking about what we know. Why do we do things slowly in the clinic when life is fast? etc . . .
If you didn't find anything challenging then you are a phenomonal clinician. You intuitively knew that the subtalar joint that doesn't move properly can be the cause of a pitcher's rotator cuff problem, or his tight gluteals. Wow, you are amazing.
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 13, 2006 4:54:00 PM
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scpt
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This is really an interesting conversation. I have been exposed to Gary's stuff over the last couple of years. Though it is very basic "common sense" information, I rarely see other PT's using these ideas in rehab. When I go to a new clinic and use transverse plane lunges or single leg balance and reach with a twist, for ankle sprains, knee pain, hip pain... other PTs look at me like I am crazy.
The basic idea is the foot bone is connected to the ankle bone....., but a lot of PT's don't think that way. I know a great deal of people that have been to his seminars and leave feeling cheated and saying "so what". I can understand that, as all Gary does is really provide you with a clear idea of functional biomechanics. There really are no "take home" techniques.
It becomes kind of funny when you try to educate physicians about this when they write orders like "strengthen the VMO"....total waste of time.
I really like Gary Gray, though he is long winded and a little "perverted", his theories ave shaped how I pracice and I have had great outcomes.
Jim
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 14, 2006 1:18:00 AM
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SJBird55
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Ummm, Tom, I'm an ATC just like you. I had a few kinesiology courses in undergrad... umm, no, Gray didn't challenge me. I already knew the stuff and all he did was use different semantics and his personality to make me feel wowwed, but in reality, umm, yep, I knew the stuff. And, no, I don't recall him ever saying that he taught anything new... but at the time, the other therapists that I spoke to DID say he taught new stuff... maybe if they were sleeping in biomechanics or kinesiology... LOL
scpt, you are correct... I believe it is common sense stuff too, and I also agree that many PTs don't see the patient as a "whole" all the time either and seem to be stuck in one plane of motion or open chain stuff without thinking about the activities a person does in a day and how what is being performed will progress the patient to those daily demands. And at the same time, I don't believe all the exercises a patient performs are strictly "strengthening" either. There is always a neurological component - motor learning or relearning and mentally there may be something with decreasing fear and anxiety...
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 14, 2006 2:32:00 AM
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marptatc
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Very good replies on this topic, I agree that Gary makes one think in a non traditional sense and agree that many PT's I have seen treat in limited planes and movement patterns. Again it all seems to go back to anatomy and Biomechanics and if you keep these in mind...your treatment options are unlimited. Just don't think it needs to be broken down into some many topics/videos at $80.00 bucks a pop
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 14, 2006 3:14:00 AM
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truthseeker
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My first inclination to your response SJ is to be sarcastic again but I will not. If, as you say, none of the material was thought provoking and entirely redundant to your previous education, I am sure you will agree that you are not the norm. Many PTs do NOT think this way i.e. functional, multiple planes, outside the box etc . . . and attending one of Gary's courses may open their eyes. A lot of what we are taught in school is cookbook. Diagnosis is A we do B. As you know, most people don't live in a cookbook, thus the need for trained professional physical therapists as problem solvers, diagnosticians, and rehab experts.
I hope you haven't discouraged anyone from attending at least one of his courses because of your apparent disdain for the material presented, and the manner in which you characterize the presenter as simply recycling old information. How many times have you had to try a different way when explaining to a patient what impingement syndrome is? Gary succeeds in explaining a complex system in an understandable way. I disagree with your assertion that just because we had anatomy and kinesiology we actually understand how it works. I was never, for example, taught that the soleus is important in regaining knee extension. It does, as I am sure you know since none of the material was new to you. For those whose eyebrows went up at that statement, the soleus participates in extending the knee in late stance phase by influencing the tibia to slow down and allow the femur to move ahead. The foot is relatively fixed on the ground so the tibia moves posteriorly when the soleus contracts. If you have a TKA or ACL patient with loss of extension, one thing you can try is posterior lunges or backward walking.
I agree the tapes are a bit slow but I think that might be because I have been to several courses and he emphasizes the basic in the tapes.
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 14, 2006 4:34:00 PM
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SJBird55
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Tom, I'm not going to get into some debate about how good of a clinician I am or defending myself after your attempt to personalize your comments toward me.
In my mind and what I experienced, the course was like re-gifting. I was caught up into his presentation and I was captivated... but, in driving to my friend's place, I can't say that I have ever, ever got as pissed off as I did after his course. He tied everything in nicely, but it wasn't new. He's got all that vocab and semantics that it bombardarded my brain... but once I let it settle (within 20 minutes of walking out of the course) and do a little bit of thinking, I had already known what he was saying. I guess it all comes down to expectations. My expectations were that I was going to learn a lot of new stuff. His course didn't meet my expectations.
I haven't discouraged anyone from attending his course. I'm not going to lie about my feelings about the experience I had though. Maybe my training is different, which leads me to my thoughts on his course.
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 15, 2006 2:37:00 AM
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USAPT
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So, here we have SJ and Tom with 2 very different opinions and what a perfect place to have them than on this discussion board. This is perfect b/c now I have both sides of a story.
SJ, I can empathize with your feelings towards a course hoping for new info but leaving disappointed. I do know anatomy & biomechanics and do use some of his exercises; however, whether his techniques are new or not depends on how one practices.
Maybe I'll be disappointed, maybe not. But atleast I'll be in CO for few days and not in FL!!
Thank you both for the interesting conversation
_____________________________
Jason, PT
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 15, 2006 2:42:00 AM
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USAPT
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So, here we have SJ and Tom with 2 very different opinions and what a perfect place to have them than on this discussion board. This is perfect b/c now I have both sides of a story.
SJ, I can empathize with your feelings towards a course hoping for new info but leaving disappointed. I do know anatomy & biomechanics and do use some of his exercises; however, whether his techniques are new or not depends on how one practices.
Maybe I'll be disappointed, maybe not. But atleast I'll be in CO for few days and not in FL!!
Thank you both for the interesting conversation
_____________________________
Jason, PT
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Re: Gary Gray Videos - March 15, 2006 2:43:00 AM
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USAPT
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sorry, it obviously copied twice....
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Jason, PT
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