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DC: Crossing the Line??
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DC: Crossing the Line?? - April 21, 2003 3:05:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
Joined: November 10, 2002
From: colorado usa
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Recently, a local chiropractor has started to advertise in the newspaper and the ad reads as follows:
" Chiropractic, Physical and Massage Therapy
Nutrition, Homeopathic"
Her credentials are as follows:
DC, CCN, DABCN
Is this misleading? Is she in violation of any current legislation (PT)? What are your thoughts? To my knowledge she does not have a PT working in her office. She has also advertised in the past at offering "counselling".
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - April 21, 2003 3:27:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
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Could be, depends on the state, but it's not for you to decide. Report to your board of PT examiners.
Drew
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - April 21, 2003 4:30:00 PM
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flexion
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The laws do vary from state to state. In Ontario that advertisement would be perfectly fine. I can say I do physiotherapy or physical therapy. Of course a PT can say they do manipulation or chiropractic as well.
A DC can't say there are a physical therapist or a physiotherapist and a PT can't say they are a chiropractor though.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 3, 2003 10:15:00 AM
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BizPlans
Posts: 5
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From: Stamford, CT USA
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Why is everyone SO concerned about reporting others instead of just doing thier job or running thier business?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by coloradojulie:
Recently, a local chiropractor has started to advertise in the newspaper and the ad reads as follows:
" Chiropractic, Physical and Massage Therapy
Nutrition, Homeopathic"
Her credentials are as follows:
DC, CCN, DABCN
Is this misleading? Is she in violation of any current legislation (PT)? What are your thoughts? To my knowledge she does not have a PT working in her office. She has also advertised in the past at offering "counselling".[/QUOTE]
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 3, 2003 2:07:00 PM
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Matthew Hauger
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From: Hermitage, PA, United States
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Reporting unethical or illegal practice is part of the job. If the state of Colorado doesn't allow that type of "misrepresentation", than Julie would obviously be wrong not to report it. Those who disagree should support their professional organization in trying to change the legislature rather than complain about it when they get caught breaking established laws.
On a personal note, I hate it when chiropractors advertise as delivering physical therapy. In fact, I would hate it if anyone who wasn't a PT did that, be they chiropractor, physician, massage therapist, etc. Physical Therapy has a specific meaning: treatment delivered by a physical therapist. To represent yourself as a PT is unethical and misleading. I would never advertise as delivering chiropractic treatment even if I manipulated spines. I would never advertise myself as a massage therapist even if massage was a regular part of my practice. I would never tell patients I "practiced medicine" even if I suggested they take aspirin in certain circumstances.
Because the law agrees with me about this in most locations, I am more than happy to help enforce it.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 3, 2003 7:34:00 PM
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coloradojulie
Posts: 413
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From: colorado usa
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Thanks Matt...
It really isn't a territorial matter that I bring up...rather a concern that this type of advertising will mislead people into thinking they are getting physical therapy, when in fact they are not.
The concern is also generated that this practitioner also advertises as a counsellor, without any training...so in an attempt to garner a larger market she is claiming to do everything.
As Matt says, I talk to people about their problems (and don't call myself a counsellor), I suggest they eat healthy diets (but am not a nutritionist), etc etc.
It is our responsiblity, yours too, to report people who are making claims that are false or misleading...its fraudulent.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 4, 2003 4:55:00 PM
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Dr.Wagner
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From: Indianapolis
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What really drives me nuts is when people use the silly initials behind their name with virtually no professional recognition or meaning (ie CSCS, CCN, DABCN blah blah blah). It really means zilch...use your professional titles (ie, DC, DO, MD, PT, RN, OT etc) only...unless you are a fellow.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 5, 2003 3:23:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
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From: Charlotte, NC
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I did a fellowship in neurodevelopmental disability, but I don't walk around putting FAAUCE (Fellow of the american association of university centers of excellence) after my name.
That said, I disagree completely. Certifications and fellowships are ways of distinguising oneself from the crowd. Just because the public doesn't quite understand what they may mean is no reason not to use them. Heck, how long did it take for FAAFP, or FACSM, or FACS to catch on among physicians?
Drew
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 5, 2003 10:59:00 AM
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BizPlans
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From: Stamford, CT USA
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I could understand the issues/misrepresentation in using the terms "Physical Therapy" "Chiropractor" "Speech Therapy" if someone is not certified as such, but how exactly is the actual description of the work performed considered to be misrepresentation? Example: a certified fitness trainer through the National Academy of Sports Medicine provides services to improve a clients core stability, gait and posture in setting up a foundation for a weight training program. Does that mean they are portraying themselves as Physical Therapists?
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 5, 2003 1:44:00 PM
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flexion
Posts: 151
Joined: August 7, 2002
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Its pretty simple for manual care:
You can define/market yourself by the service you provide; but, NOT as another health professional. Thats it.
If someone wants to go to a subrate PT for manipulation or a subrate DC for rehab then there is nothing wrong with that as long as the person knows who is doing the work.
Here and there laws vary this concept.
[This message has been edited by flexion (edited May 05, 2003).]
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 5, 2003 5:19:00 PM
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Dr.Wagner
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From: Indianapolis
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Being a "fellow" of the American College of surgery (FACS) or EM (FACEP) etc is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than doing a recognized "fellowship" (ie cardiology, gastroenterology, pediatric surgery, critical care medicine etc). And these fellowships are all encompassing, day after day of hard work for 1-3 years ADDED to residency. Yes they are fellows, but only while doing the fellowship.
But the "fellows" that I am speaking of, such as those who earned FACEP is board certified in EM, must be nominated after practicing for no less than 3 years in EM (usually 10 years and typically a portion in academics), be published, serve on a hospital board, must be involved in education of medical students, must maintain good membership in the college, and must pass board recertification. , "This is TOTALLY different than many of the absolute bogus titles people use.
I WAS A "CSCS", and it was a terribly simple test that any college muscle -head could've passed...worthless letters. And that is what I am saying, using "cracker jack" titles only lesson those that really hold stength...PT, OT, SLP, AT-C, DO , MD, RN, DC etc!
[This message has been edited by Dr.Wagner (edited May 05, 2003).]
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 6, 2003 9:18:00 AM
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BizPlans
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From: Stamford, CT USA
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If person want to improve their mobility functions and they decide on a certified fitness trainer vs. a PT, why would you consider that "subrate"?
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 6, 2003 9:45:00 AM
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mcap56
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From: New York, NY
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People should sign official documents and treatment notes with their title, PT, MD, RN, DC, etc. However, in terms of anything else, I have absolutely no problem with people putting whatever initial they want after their name.
It is up to the people evaluating your credentials to determine whether or not it is of value to them. This extends beyond healthcare. My father is a lead auditing engineer. After his title (PE), he lists the initials that are representative of his two certifications. The time, effort and experience required for them was significant and it is revelant to people who want to evaluate his credentials. What about board certification in ergonomics (CPE designation)? This is a grueling examination and the process requires years of training and study. Why shouldn't this be recognized? There is nothing wrong with that. What about professors I have had that are diplomats of the american board of toxicology (DABT). Perhaps they should hide it also, no matter how difficult the process was?
AS a student, a PT and a consumer, I will make my own judgements about what initials are worth. If someone wants to load their title with lot's of meaningless initials, then that is their perogative, but it doesn't bother me.
mcap56
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 6, 2003 10:23:00 AM
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DocZon
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From: Winchester, MA
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I agree with you caloradojulie, it is misleading. If someone is truly looking for physical therapy, they will probably figure it out once they get to the office and see a DC doing the work.
Many chiropractors use the term "rehab" which may be more appropriate. As a DC myself, I do perform rehab on most of the patients I see. I certainly do not call it physical therapy though.
I guess it goes back to the whole turf war thing. PT's do procedures that chiropractors do and chiropractors perform procedures that PT's do.
The best way is to have PT's and DC's working together, under one roof. Let the chiros do what they are good at and the PT's do what they are best at.
We can even both hook them up to the EMS machine together, just so there is no bitterness.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 6, 2003 1:53:00 PM
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DcK
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The reason this DC, and other DC's like 'em advertise this way is Because,
Listen Carefully,
OVER 90% OF DC'S THINK THEY CAN DO PHYSICAL THERAPY, JUST AS GOOD AS A PT, OR EVEN BETTER. THE DC'S IN YOUR AREA THINK THEY CAN DO EVERYTHING YOU PT'S DO, AND BETTER. AFTER ALL, THEY'RE A "DOCTOR" AND YOU ARE NOT!!
Now, you'll see other DC's get on here and claim that it's NOT true... Fowl. But, don't believe my words, LOOK at their actions, and you'll see the truth!!
DcK
[This message has been edited by DcK (edited May 06, 2003).]
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 7, 2003 5:34:00 AM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
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That's why they're threatened by the doctors of physical therapy --- afterall, they're doctors of rehabilitation, and the chiropracctor is not!
Drew
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 7, 2003 10:59:00 AM
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Dr.Wagner
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From: Indianapolis
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Since when is a DPT a "doctor of rehabilitation"...I thought it was Doctor of Physical Therapy.
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Re: DC: Crossing the Line?? - May 7, 2003 3:43:00 PM
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Andrew M. Ball PT PhD
Posts: 855
Joined: July 28, 2002
From: Charlotte, NC
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It is, but what exactly do you think it is that physical therapists do if not NMS diagnostics and treatment at the level of functional rehabilitation?
Drew
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